Political Correctness and Other Imaginary Menaces

[NorthernComfort]

I'm not considering your point of view at all at this point. The debate is over. Fin.

When you blatantly misrepresent what I have said - over MONTHS - and then don't even acknowledge it... seriously man why would I continue this?

April 7th

Of course, when I keep asking what the menace is, well at best I get a long-winded conspiracy theory. Because the PC crowd are manipulators, out to create laws that actually destroy the first amendment.

January 26th

I think I found one of the critical miscommunications that has been clogging up this discussion. I don't view the PC folks as any threat to free speech, in the first amendment sense. They do not threaten our democracy. They are a constant threat to genuine political discourse within the Democratic party, which is unfortunate, but that's a far cry from being a threat to free speech.

If you want to have a conversation, start by listening.

[The Cid]

I'm not considering your point of view at all at this point.

You never did. For a second. And I'm very insulted that you keep acting like you did.

"Start by listening." Actually I started this thread. Why not try listening to me?

[NorthernComfort]

You never did. For a second. And I'm very insulted that you keep acting like you did.

You're very insulted that I engaged you in months of debate? OK.

Crocodile tears are a trope of PC culture and I don't give a shit about them.

[The Cid]

You're very insulted that I engaged you in months of debate? OK.

You never did. You can keep saying you did, but you never did. You have not taken an instant to consider this from my point of view, or a single point I've made. You just dismiss, dismiss, dismiss. Because I'm some idiot and clearly you're right and see the world properly. You want to walk away, walk away, but don't declare yourself a victor.

The sarcasm is, to me, appropriate given the tone of people responding to me in this thread. Going to treat me like an idiot? I'm going to make fun of your refusal to consider what I have to say while trying to refute it.

"Engaged." Yeah, by talking down to me from day one and not considering my POV.

Crocodile tears are a trope of PC culture and I don't give a shit about them.

So is being triggered because someone called you a racist so you need to shut them up permanently and make the whole damn world your safe space. I do wish people would see the hypocrisy in extreme anti-political-correct crap.

Also, while I wouldn't claim to have seen this from your perspective because that would be dismissive of your perspective (HINT HINT), I have addressed one of your central points that you're concerned about PC Culture being the driving force behind America's political divide. In fact I've done it on almost every last page of this thread. At one point I had hoped that we would be able to go down that rabbit hole, but, nah. I guess I didn't show proper forensic form.

[NorthernComfort]

You never did. You can keep saying you did, but you never did.

You can go back and read our conversation. I don't really want to get into "Oh yes I DID take this seriously" vs "Nuhh uhhh you never listened to meee!" stuff.

You have not taken an instant to consider this from my point of view, or a single point I've made. You just dismiss, dismiss, dismiss.

Extreme much?

You want to walk away, walk away, but don't declare yourself a victor.

Maybe this is why we have such an issue here. You are very fixated on winning and who is the victor here. But here's the catch. I'm not going to win, and I'm not going to lose. I have my opinions and worldview, and I have shared them with you. You have totally failed to change my mind, and if anything your behavior has reinforced my belief that PC culture has permeated and poisoned political discourse. That's not a victory. It just means I wasted my time.

So is being triggered because someone called you a racist so you need to shut them up permanently and make the whole damn world your safe space. I do wish people would see the hypocrisy in extreme anti-political-correct crap.

Who triggered who, who is racist, and who is shutting somebody up permanently etc?

Seriously you get into your hyperbolic rants and it's like staring into an abyss of futile fury.

Also, while I wouldn't claim to have seen this from your perspective because that would be dismissive of your perspective

Taking the time to understand somebody else's opinion and thinking is not necessarily dismissive. When you have done your due diligence and decided that their opinions and thought processes are illogical or incorrect, yeah, you can dismiss it. Uhh... class dismissed?

[The Cid]

You can go back and read our conversation.

Man, I did. You mischaracterized every position I've had and dismissed it as quickly as possible in order to make me look bad. That's not the same thing as considering things from my point of view, and if you're unclear on why this would be insulting to me I don't know what to tell you. I'm not making these points to piss you off, I promise you that. I really feel this way. I'm really still unconvinced. I still believe my central points here. I want them discussed. I don't feel that they've been. Just mocked.

And opinion being opinion, if you just want to dismiss me and move on that's fine, but there's a lot of time sunk into this at this point and I've yet to feel like anyone's taking much time to consider anything I've said.

Who triggered who, who is racist, and who is shutting somebody up permanently etc?

Your personal experience from this seems to be centered around people calling you racist in a political discussion, which you deemed unfair, and you thought that once they slapped that label on you it made it easy for them to dismiss what you said.

While I can't say I've been there, I'm feeling similar in this very thread. Kind of hard to make a point to someone when that person clearly thinks you're some braying jackass.

What really gets me is that I repeatedly addressed a central point of yours, hoped we could actually both get to expand upon it, and it just got ignored every time. I'd love to go into what you think are the causes of our political divide, because I've been focused on that very divide for pretty much my entire adult life. It is the main thing that concerns me politically. It could have been a kickass discussion. And in fact, I would love to ask you to consider how I've spent so much time thinking about this and arrived at different conclusions from your own. Somewhere between the two, the truth lies, and that would be phenomenal to find. Ah well.

But you don't see me as worthy of discussing things like an equal and that's been made obvious with your long condescending tone. Which sucks because we really could have had a good discussion.

In response to being dismissed and mocked, I gave you sarcasm. What else was I supposed to do, apologize for disagreeing?

It seems to me you feel bullied by the Politically Correct. While I feel for you, I don't think that really is enough to confirm for me that this is a menace that will impact my life. If you disagree, I'd love to hear something I have lost that I just didn't notice was lost. It seems like you want to tell me that I'm lying about my personal experience. As every writing class I've ever taken says, show don't tell.

Oh wait, professors told me that, and all of them are evil.

[NorthernComfort]

Your personal experience from this seems to be centered around people calling you racist in a political discussion, which you deemed unfair, and you thought that once they slapped that label on you it made it easy for them to dismiss what you said.

That's actually never happened. In recent memory, you are literally the only person who has implied that I am racist.

Yes, I do think a lot of the problem with PC culture is that people are too quick to accuse others of racism/sexism etc... which is a widely shared belief, in fact the New York Times said that explicitly back in 1990.

I'd love to go into what you think are the causes of our political divide, because I've been focused on that very divide for pretty much my entire adult life. It is the main thing that concerns me politically. It could have been a kickass discussion.

We have been having this discussion- I have posited that PC culture has exacerbated political divides over several decades. You have rejected this, since you cling to the belief that PC is an imaginary menace. Yes, it could have been a kickass discussion.

It seems to me you feel bullied by the Politically Correct.

No. I don't really give a shit. What bothers me is that an annoying facet of our culture - PC - has helped contribute to Trump winning. THAT'S WHY I AM SO FUCKING PISSED. EARTH TO CID. DO YOU READ ME.

[The Cid]

We have been having this discussion- I have posited that PC culture has exacerbated political divides over several decades. You have rejected this, since you cling to the belief that PC is an imaginary menace. Yes, it could have been a kickass discussion.

So you're not going to address any of the times I've tried to start up that conversation in this thread specifically because of the title.

In fact, it's funny, you seem to believe the title of this thread is the entirety of my argument. I feel differently. Perhaps you're seeing my perspective better than I am? This is deliberate refusal at this point and if you still don't see why I'm insulted, wow.

You keep deliberately ignoring what I have to say and refer back to the title every time.

No. I don't really give a shit. What bothers me is that an annoying facet of our culture - PC - has helped contribute to Trump winning. THAT'S WHY I AM SO FUCKING PISSED.

So when you make a statement like this I'm supposed to take it as fact. When I make a statement it must be ignored.

I have said repeatedly in this thread I disagree with this logic and I've given you considerable words BEYOND 'IMAGINARY MENACE' that you refuse to acknowledge. Don't tell me you want to have a discussion you deliberately passed on so you could win points.

[NorthernComfort]

Imaginary = not real.

I am of the opinion it's a real problem.

Whether or not something is real is not something I tend to be flexible with. What is and is not real is not a semantic dance.

Yes, you could have saved this thread a lot of pain if you had not titled it Imaginary Menace or perhaps had retracted your initial claim that that PC is an imaginary menace.

So you're not going to address any of the times I've tried to start up that conversation in this thread specifically because of the title.

Again- the conversation, to me, would have revolved around the real impact of PC, and we have a fundamental disagreement on the reality of it.

I also suggested starting new threads for tangents, but you chose not to, but continue discussing the reality of the PC menace. And here we are.

[The Cid]

So the only word you actually read in this entire thread was "Imaginary." That's it. Nothing else I had to say mattered one bit to you.

Way to consider it from my perspective.

It's not a tangent if it's directly relevant to your central point.

[NorthernComfort]

So the only word you actually read in this entire thread was "Imaginary." That's it. Nothing else I had to say mattered one bit to you.

Are you physically unable to see any issue beyond black and white, all or nothing?

[The Cid]

I could ask the same of you. You've ignored everything I've said because the word "imaginary" is in the title. That's not debate. That's mocking. If you want to DISCUSS this, and CLEARLY YOU NEVER DID, then fine. But if you don't, why is it so useful to mock me while lecturing me at the same time?

[NorthernComfort]

I could ask the same of you. You've ignored everything I've said because the word "imaginary" is in the title. That's not debate. That's mocking. If you want to DISCUSS this, and CLEARLY YOU NEVER DID, then fine. But if you don't, why is it so useful to mock me while lecturing me at the same time?

Cid, not only is it the title of the thread, but you have made the imaginary argument on several occasions:

My whole point is that I believe this is completely imagined. That the idea that there are militant PC people out there, or some powerful lobby of hyperfeminists ready to turn on us all, is just a laughable one.

It's not real, it's imagined, and it's dangerous that people have dreamed it up.

Perhaps the problem here is that I listened to your words, and thus missed your point?

[The Cid]

You keep saying that but I swear you haven't considered where I'm coming from, why I believe what I do about this subject, or why I'm unconvinced despite your insistence that I sit down and listen to my societal better tell me what life really is. You just want to win. You want to verbally beat me into submission. Because I'm some asshole and you're awesome.

it's one of a dozen times in this thread you've stated your view of things as unquestioned fact.

I'm glad you pretended to consider my perspective for just long enough that you could dismiss it and treat me like a child.

Perhaps the problem here is that I listened to your words, and thus missed your point?

I've made more than three posts. You're mocking me. And for someone who argues so well and claims to be so respectful to keep doing that, maybe I really do deserve it.

[NorthernComfort]

You have made dozens of posts trying to imply that political correctness is an imaginary menace, a non-issue, silly college kids with zero impact, or a fake issue being pumped by the alt-right to invigorate racists. (I eagerly await you telling me that I have misunderstood you, but this is a pretty quick summary of the key points in which I have disagreed with you, and I'll quote you on all of them)

To me, that doesn't reflect reality, and I have said so repeatedly. As long as your "whole point" is that it's "completely imagined" then yeah, I'm going to continue to disagree with you.

It's not because of your style... it's that I disagree with what you have said, over and over.

It's not because of the title of the thread... it's that I disagree with what you have said, over and over.

It's not because I don't understand what you've said... it's that I disagree with what you have said, over and over.

It's not because I want to mock you... it's that I disagree with what you have said, over and over.