Points of fact
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- Redshirt
- Posts: 2764
- Joined: Fri May 23, 2003 8:13 pm
- Real Name: Alex
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- Location: Brooklyn, NY
Re: Points of fact
/bows
anytime. in fact, i'll be here all night. whoa whoa tough audience! wait what's this cane? hey HEY!
people can fuck right off is what i'm saying.
anytime. in fact, i'll be here all night. whoa whoa tough audience! wait what's this cane? hey HEY!
people can fuck right off is what i'm saying.
"I guess I have a gift for expressing pedestrian tastes. In a way, it's kind of depressing." -Bill Watterson
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- Shining Adonis
- Posts: 44268
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2003 3:00 pm
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- Location: Lakehills, TX
Re: Points of fact
In departure from previous entries to the list, here's a household DIY point of fact. Benefit from my research and now experience.
I had an old T12 fluorescent ballast finally go out in a light fixture in my kitchen. I had a bunch of the newer T8 bulbs already on hand, so I figured now's a good time to convert both fixtures to T8. The pins are the same, and they're the same length, but T8 bulbs are 1 inch in diameter (8/8ths, thus T8) and are more efficient while T12 bulbs are 1.5 inches in diameter (12/8ths, thus T12) and are less efficient and being phased out. So to use T8 bulbs in an old T12 fixture, all you have to do is change out the old T12 ballast to a new T8 electronic ballast, which runs about $15 at Home Depot or Lowe's. But there are residential and commercial ballasts, and the wiring is different from the old T12. What to do?
People think residential is junk and commercial is high quality. Right? Well for ballasts they're labeled for "consumer" or "non-consumer" use. Consumer ballasts are not necessarily crap, and non-consumer ballasts are not necessarily awesome. The difference is not in quality but in the FCC rating and the standards to which they're held--and a consumer rating is tougher than the non-consumer version. Because by their very nature they can cause interference with RF (radio frequency), most of it through the building wiring, it can cause problems with anything that uses RF, which is a broad spectrum. So everything from some types of multimedia remote controls (like newer DirecTV remotes) to WiFi to bluetooth to cordless phones, FM and AM radio, pretty much everything. Those ballasts rated for consumer use are mostly concerned with RF EMI (and a handful of other guidelines like operating temperature limits).
Only consumer rated ballasts should be used in residential applications. In fact, the non-consumer versions are often cheaper to make because they don't have the same amount of shielding and RF filtering, they can get hotter during use, and so on. But people see them as "commercial" and therefore assume they're heavy duty. Because they're slightly simpler then theoretically they may end up lasting longer on average, but we're talking quite a few years of life expectancy either way. In more populated areas--even worse in apartment buildings and especially high-rise residential buildings--people running non-consumer ballasts in light fixtures can all end up dog-piling RFI on each other so that WiFi and cordless phones have terrible range and the radio may not work well, etc. They can blame it on congestion when there are lots of those kinds of networks and devices near each other, and that definitely can have an effect, but dumb stuff like lighting fixtures do as well. There's a reason they're rated and labeled as they are.
Now, if you're converting an old T12 fixture to T8, just remember that the old T12 fixtures used two wires for individual power feeds and an individual wire for each common. So for a 2-lamp T12 fixture, it'll have 2 blues (one lamp's power), 2 reds (the other lamp's power), and then 2 yellows (a common for each lamp). The new T8 ballasts don't need all that. Instead they have one power wire (blue) for each lamp and one common (red). So wire-nut one blue wire from the ballast together with BOTH blue wires from the fixture, and the other blue wire from the ballast to BOTH red wires from the fixture, and then the red wire from the ballast to BOTH yellows. Make sure your power (white and black) are wired in, pop in the T8 bulbs, and you're good to go. Shouldn't take long or any particular skill or special tools.
And now you know.
I had an old T12 fluorescent ballast finally go out in a light fixture in my kitchen. I had a bunch of the newer T8 bulbs already on hand, so I figured now's a good time to convert both fixtures to T8. The pins are the same, and they're the same length, but T8 bulbs are 1 inch in diameter (8/8ths, thus T8) and are more efficient while T12 bulbs are 1.5 inches in diameter (12/8ths, thus T12) and are less efficient and being phased out. So to use T8 bulbs in an old T12 fixture, all you have to do is change out the old T12 ballast to a new T8 electronic ballast, which runs about $15 at Home Depot or Lowe's. But there are residential and commercial ballasts, and the wiring is different from the old T12. What to do?
People think residential is junk and commercial is high quality. Right? Well for ballasts they're labeled for "consumer" or "non-consumer" use. Consumer ballasts are not necessarily crap, and non-consumer ballasts are not necessarily awesome. The difference is not in quality but in the FCC rating and the standards to which they're held--and a consumer rating is tougher than the non-consumer version. Because by their very nature they can cause interference with RF (radio frequency), most of it through the building wiring, it can cause problems with anything that uses RF, which is a broad spectrum. So everything from some types of multimedia remote controls (like newer DirecTV remotes) to WiFi to bluetooth to cordless phones, FM and AM radio, pretty much everything. Those ballasts rated for consumer use are mostly concerned with RF EMI (and a handful of other guidelines like operating temperature limits).
Only consumer rated ballasts should be used in residential applications. In fact, the non-consumer versions are often cheaper to make because they don't have the same amount of shielding and RF filtering, they can get hotter during use, and so on. But people see them as "commercial" and therefore assume they're heavy duty. Because they're slightly simpler then theoretically they may end up lasting longer on average, but we're talking quite a few years of life expectancy either way. In more populated areas--even worse in apartment buildings and especially high-rise residential buildings--people running non-consumer ballasts in light fixtures can all end up dog-piling RFI on each other so that WiFi and cordless phones have terrible range and the radio may not work well, etc. They can blame it on congestion when there are lots of those kinds of networks and devices near each other, and that definitely can have an effect, but dumb stuff like lighting fixtures do as well. There's a reason they're rated and labeled as they are.
Now, if you're converting an old T12 fixture to T8, just remember that the old T12 fixtures used two wires for individual power feeds and an individual wire for each common. So for a 2-lamp T12 fixture, it'll have 2 blues (one lamp's power), 2 reds (the other lamp's power), and then 2 yellows (a common for each lamp). The new T8 ballasts don't need all that. Instead they have one power wire (blue) for each lamp and one common (red). So wire-nut one blue wire from the ballast together with BOTH blue wires from the fixture, and the other blue wire from the ballast to BOTH red wires from the fixture, and then the red wire from the ballast to BOTH yellows. Make sure your power (white and black) are wired in, pop in the T8 bulbs, and you're good to go. Shouldn't take long or any particular skill or special tools.
And now you know.
The follies which a man regrets the most in his life are those which he didn't commit when he had the opportunity. - Helen Rowland, A Guide to Men, 1922
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- Mad Hatteras
- Posts: 1994
- Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 3:00 pm
- Real Name: Jennifer
- Gender: Female
- Location: Hatteras,NC
Re: Points of fact
A lot of people never reexamine why they believe something so changing evidence makes no difference to them. Even when people are debating or discussing it is often based on their initial take on something and not the long haul.Deacon wrote: I realize that may not be "normal" among my peers, but if everyone just shut up and nodded and smiled, I would never have had those moments. I realize that for many of them, I entered KNOWING it was going to be debated since it was somewhere like the politics sub-forum here. But I've also been challenged when I've just thrown stuff out there elsewhere as a given.
You should by all means express how you feel as long as you understand the majority of people don't give a fuck, and will likely feel less inclined to spend time with someone who always challenges their beliefs. You may want to pick your battles more and learn to take the need to correct everyone down a notch.Deacon wrote: So my guess is that in the end most people's recommendation would be to just swallow it, nod and smile, it's all just for fun, let people warm themselves in their fallacies and relax in their own echo chamber or feedback loop, that there's not enough tact in the world for most people to accept anything other than complete agreement. But is that really what's best for society as a whole, both short-term and long-term? Or since we're all worm food soon anyway, what does it really matter to any individual?
Then you sir are clearly not paying attention, you are pretty awesome, charming is for fairytale princes I will take intelligence and a sense of humor any day. Many people here want your friendship and approval and I would like to think that many of us have already qualified as friends. Approval? meh my friends do things all the time I don't approve of doesn't make me unfriend them just means I know who they are and it doesn't matter.Deacon wrote: I realize that's certainly due in part to the fact that I'm not now nor have ever really been a cool guy, charming to most, or generally tactful. Few people have ever wanted my friendship or approval, and I'm not sure anyone has ever needed it, so why would they give half a shit unless they themselves were already open to discussion?
I am truly sorry to hear that, we all go through low points of "what if I had. . . . , or if only I had said. . . . " don't let it beat you down. It is hard to realize that even the toughest of us just want to be loved for all our quirks and desires. If you feel that way about your friends ask why you are being excluded sometimes you see things through a depression lens that isn't really there and if they are actually excluding you what is the deal and is it something you are willing to change? and if they are doing it because they need you to change who you are and you don't want to then fuck 'em they aren't friends. The same goes for the sexy lady, get an explanation and if they aren't willing to meet half way then why would you want to be with them? Keeping in mind that meeting someone half way requires you to take some steps as well. Thanks for letting me stay it's cold out there.Deacon wrote: I guess it doesn't help that at the moment I feel very alone, very vulnerable to the whims of others, and in me that naturally causes a defiant response. Fuck you, I don't need you. Except I kind of do, still. Feeling lost and unloved at the same time isn't a great combo, especially when you end up feeling excluded by your closest friends. And that goes double for when you thought you had found a sexy lady who really liked you for you, only to have them disappear without explanation. So even though you normally make a mess of things purely innocently, now you add a little defiance to the mix, and it's even less successful. Ugh.
~Insert clever bon mot here~
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- Shining Adonis
- Posts: 44268
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2003 3:00 pm
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- Location: Lakehills, TX
Re: Points of fact
That was wise and well said. Unfortunately I never did get an explanation from the sexy lady. She's since moved on to start seeing someone I think probably matches her better. The sad part is her youngest still texted me a few more times after she split, asking if I could pick him up from his elementary school. Got to me a little. I still want kids some day.
And yes, I consider y'all friends. In many ways you who've been around for a long time probably know good chunks of me better than a lot of my face to face friends. But unfortunately it's a logistical nightmare to have a beer with you people
And in my case, it's not just close friends but partners in this property we've built. If one day they decide they're not interested in being friends anymore, which I doubt would ever really happen, I would be pretty screwed with all the money and blood/sweat/tears poured into what is technically their side of the property line, plus a major investment in that processing complex that doesn't make much sense on 15 acres instead of 92. But because we are now not just my closest friends but also next door neighbors, and we generally end up spending a lot of time together, it sucks when little things going wrong pile up on top of new and what were initially mutual friends suddenly hanging out almost exclusively without even mentioning it, plus other independent projects sucking up time and effort (to the detriment of mutual projects that get neglected and left to me to tend to on my own) together with bitch mode switch engaged for his wife on a few things... All of it adds up to a wholly one-sided feeling of separation and exclusion that would never occur to them. And since of course im not a big fan of going out to bars (nearest ones are 20 minute away) to meet random people I don't generally fit in with very well, I just end up running errands and generally being a little isolated.
Not sure how this turned into an oddball dear diary session, but there you go.
And yes, I consider y'all friends. In many ways you who've been around for a long time probably know good chunks of me better than a lot of my face to face friends. But unfortunately it's a logistical nightmare to have a beer with you people

Not sure how this turned into an oddball dear diary session, but there you go.
The follies which a man regrets the most in his life are those which he didn't commit when he had the opportunity. - Helen Rowland, A Guide to Men, 1922
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- Shining Adonis
- Posts: 44268
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2003 3:00 pm
- Gender: Male
- Location: Lakehills, TX
Re: Points of fact
In other DIY related news... So, interesting tidbit, something else I didn't know before: sometimes new bulbs have a break-in/burn-in period to them. I bought a 30-pack of GE 4100K T8 bulbs originally for the processing complex building project where I was going to end up using at least 10 or 12 of the bulbs initially, and it still would've been cheaper to buy the bulbs and throw the rest away than buy smaller packs. In the end I only used 4 of them, because I went with high-bay lights instead, 6-bulb T5HO. These are the bulbs: http://www.lowes.com/pd_621139-371-7640 ... d=50325341
So anyway I replaced the ballasts, buttoned them up, installed the bulbs, and turned them on. Not good. They were dim, a couple of them nearly dark on one end, and they had swirling/banding going on (not flickering). They had a tiny bit of a purplish tint to them, too. Sure, the actual bulbs inside the tubes produce UV light that excites the phosphors, but these weren't supposed to be blue lights.
I left them on and went to the computer to google what in the world I did wrong with the ballast install. Found out some people claim they need to run for a while. Went back and looked just a few minutes later, and sure enough they were burning bright, white, with no dim spots or banding. Some even claim that for the first 100 hours or so you should avoid turning them on only briefly like you might do a hallway light. I'm not sure about all that, but it seems like it took a few minutes for these F32T8 bulbs to get up and running. I've noticed little difference since then.
Some claim it's an unintentional byproduct of the manufacturing process. Some say it's a perfectly well known aspect of the design, that these bulbs are filled with krypton and the mercury vapor in them is minimized as far as possible, just a little painted on the internal filaments, and that initial startup boils off the mercury and takes a few minutes for it to disperse evenly throughout the tube. So once it's on and fully bright, it's good to go.
That could all be hogwash as far as I know, but it sounds to this layman like maybe it could be true.
So anyway I replaced the ballasts, buttoned them up, installed the bulbs, and turned them on. Not good. They were dim, a couple of them nearly dark on one end, and they had swirling/banding going on (not flickering). They had a tiny bit of a purplish tint to them, too. Sure, the actual bulbs inside the tubes produce UV light that excites the phosphors, but these weren't supposed to be blue lights.
I left them on and went to the computer to google what in the world I did wrong with the ballast install. Found out some people claim they need to run for a while. Went back and looked just a few minutes later, and sure enough they were burning bright, white, with no dim spots or banding. Some even claim that for the first 100 hours or so you should avoid turning them on only briefly like you might do a hallway light. I'm not sure about all that, but it seems like it took a few minutes for these F32T8 bulbs to get up and running. I've noticed little difference since then.
Some claim it's an unintentional byproduct of the manufacturing process. Some say it's a perfectly well known aspect of the design, that these bulbs are filled with krypton and the mercury vapor in them is minimized as far as possible, just a little painted on the internal filaments, and that initial startup boils off the mercury and takes a few minutes for it to disperse evenly throughout the tube. So once it's on and fully bright, it's good to go.
That could all be hogwash as far as I know, but it sounds to this layman like maybe it could be true.
The follies which a man regrets the most in his life are those which he didn't commit when he had the opportunity. - Helen Rowland, A Guide to Men, 1922
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- Mad Hatteras
- Posts: 1994
- Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 3:00 pm
- Real Name: Jennifer
- Gender: Female
- Location: Hatteras,NC
Re: Points of fact
This forum is often my Dear Diary. I know what you mean about socializing and I don't like to go to bars and drink and quite frankly most people locally don't get me and I'm not living in a huge population area. I'm a little too nerd for most of them. So what is a processing complex? You aren't making Soylent Green out in the hills are you? We need some kind of giant Skype room where we can meet up with fellow oddballs haha. I wish you luck on your journey but we are always here to bitch to
.

~Insert clever bon mot here~
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- Redshirt
- Posts: 2764
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Re: Points of fact
we all need a little time to rant and let off the steam. not much in the world hurts more than having to handle a sad child who doesn't understand why adults aren't behaving in the way they expect. or pets. man, i went through a terrible breakup five years back and i wound up missing my dog so much i nearly lost my damn mind. but you got friends here and all over, though. except for the dirtbags. and fuck them, right?
"I guess I have a gift for expressing pedestrian tastes. In a way, it's kind of depressing." -Bill Watterson
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- Shining Adonis
- Posts: 44268
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2003 3:00 pm
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- Location: Lakehills, TX
Re: Points of fact
Damn humans...
The follies which a man regrets the most in his life are those which he didn't commit when he had the opportunity. - Helen Rowland, A Guide to Men, 1922
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- Mad Hatteras
- Posts: 1994
- Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 3:00 pm
- Real Name: Jennifer
- Gender: Female
- Location: Hatteras,NC
Re: Points of fact
I know right? My dogs are way better people than most people.Deacon wrote:Damn humans...
~Insert clever bon mot here~
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- Redshirt
- Posts: 2764
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Re: Points of fact
Ugh all these PEOPLE!
"I guess I have a gift for expressing pedestrian tastes. In a way, it's kind of depressing." -Bill Watterson
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- The Immoral Immortal
- Posts: 17780
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Re: Points of fact
I like you, Deacon. Honestly, I think anything over and above that is just a small bonus.
To Let
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- Shining Adonis
- Posts: 44268
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2003 3:00 pm
- Gender: Male
- Location: Lakehills, TX
Re: Points of fact
In point of fact you are inherently correct.
The follies which a man regrets the most in his life are those which he didn't commit when he had the opportunity. - Helen Rowland, A Guide to Men, 1922
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- Mad Hatteras
- Posts: 1994
- Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 3:00 pm
- Real Name: Jennifer
- Gender: Female
- Location: Hatteras,NC
Re: Points of fact
I still want to know if you hare making Soylent Green up in the hills.
~Insert clever bon mot here~
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- The Immoral Immortal
- Posts: 17780
- Joined: Tue Feb 18, 2003 7:35 am
- Gender: Male
- Location: Glasgow, Scotland
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- Shining Adonis
- Posts: 44268
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2003 3:00 pm
- Gender: Male
- Location: Lakehills, TX
Re: Points of fact
Oh, no, I thought I had posted about it here. It's essentially a commercial kitchen, primarily for quartering and processing game (mostly deer), with all the accouterments required. The idea is to make that aspect of hunting (everything hunted is eaten) and food preparation awesome. Every detail was thought out. I would've loved to make it bigger and better, but it was plenty expensive as is. The idea is that not only is it great for personal use, but eventually the goal is to high-fence the property (8-foot fencing keeps expensive exotic or well-bred game animals in who would otherwise leap over a 5-foot fence with ease) and start cultivating axis deer.
Whitetail deer are native game species, subject to strict hunting regulations, and by Texas law (and most other states) you cannot produce whitetail products for sale, even if they were raised in captivity for that purpose. If you ever order venison at a restaurant or see venison jerky or venison sausage for sale, chances are it's not whitetail but actually something else, often the larger and meatier (and tasty) axis deer, a non-native species brought in for hunting and food that has occasionally over the last 50 years or so gotten out of the various ranches due to fence breakage or what have you, and they have flourished in the Texas hill country. Being non-native species, they are not subject to hunting or meat production regulations and thus may be raised for venison.
So once the place is high-fenced, with plenty of water, feed, protein supplements, etc, we'll stock it with some axis. Once we've got a sufficiently substantial and diverse herd flourishing, we'll start harvesting them as needed to keep a line of jerky, venison burger, various sausages, salamis, etc, all being produced for sale locally and online. Kind of an interesting side business that, who knows, maybe one day could turn out to be decently profitable. But it had to be built to meat production facility specifications and standards so that it can be certified for production, so that we can legally sell stuff out of it. It cost and arm and a goddamned leg to build, and I'll be paying it off for a while, but it's super awesome.
I'll have to get some good pictures of it later to show it off, but for now here's the floorplan and some recent pics of the interior, including about 30 pounds of ground venison/boston-butt-pork combo in about a 70-30 ratio. I killed, quartered, deboned, ground, packaged, and weighed two small deer myself to produce all that.




Whitetail deer are native game species, subject to strict hunting regulations, and by Texas law (and most other states) you cannot produce whitetail products for sale, even if they were raised in captivity for that purpose. If you ever order venison at a restaurant or see venison jerky or venison sausage for sale, chances are it's not whitetail but actually something else, often the larger and meatier (and tasty) axis deer, a non-native species brought in for hunting and food that has occasionally over the last 50 years or so gotten out of the various ranches due to fence breakage or what have you, and they have flourished in the Texas hill country. Being non-native species, they are not subject to hunting or meat production regulations and thus may be raised for venison.
So once the place is high-fenced, with plenty of water, feed, protein supplements, etc, we'll stock it with some axis. Once we've got a sufficiently substantial and diverse herd flourishing, we'll start harvesting them as needed to keep a line of jerky, venison burger, various sausages, salamis, etc, all being produced for sale locally and online. Kind of an interesting side business that, who knows, maybe one day could turn out to be decently profitable. But it had to be built to meat production facility specifications and standards so that it can be certified for production, so that we can legally sell stuff out of it. It cost and arm and a goddamned leg to build, and I'll be paying it off for a while, but it's super awesome.
I'll have to get some good pictures of it later to show it off, but for now here's the floorplan and some recent pics of the interior, including about 30 pounds of ground venison/boston-butt-pork combo in about a 70-30 ratio. I killed, quartered, deboned, ground, packaged, and weighed two small deer myself to produce all that.




The follies which a man regrets the most in his life are those which he didn't commit when he had the opportunity. - Helen Rowland, A Guide to Men, 1922
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