Points of fact

[Deacon]

If you complain that chivalry is dead, or if you denigrate a man for a lack of sexual conquests or a woman for a multitude of her own, you can't call yourself a feminist.

If you reject analysis of an ad-driven blogger's assertions and denigrate those who do, you cannot call yourself open-minded.

If you want to silence those who encourage critical thinking skill in or about the classroom, you cannot call yourself an educator.

If you support forcing others to live by the rules of the religion into which you've been indoctrinated, you cannot call yourself a proponent of religious liberty or claim to oppose religious fundamentalism.

You're free to do all those things and more. But you don't get to claim a mantle of superiority while doing so.

Goddamnit I'm so sick of people.

[Deacon]

Patriotism isn't inherently noble, and voicing disagreement or criticizing politicians isn't inherently unpatriotic. You know who's super patriotic? ISIS. And the SS.

People who choose a career in law enforcement aren't inherently heroes nor are they necessarily authority hogs looking to feel big. They're just people. Some have good intentions, some like the idea of it. Yes, it can be a very demanding job, and while some are good at it, some aren't. They're not any better or worse than anyone else who picks any other job.

People who choose to join the military aren't inherently heroes nor are they necessarily bloodthirsty lunatics. Many just want free education or to see the world. No one is under any obligation to support the troops, especially when they volunteer to be used as killing agents for what some may view as an unnecessary or even unjust conflict.

[Rorschach]

I really miss some of the more strongly-opinionated posters on the site. I can think of two or three people alone who would make this a megathread, and a cracking read. Often, I see stuff on facebook - and often from ex-forumites - and think, "I wonder what Deacon would make of that".

'Heroes' is a very overused word. I can't hear it without thinking about Homer and Lisa talking about the radio Bart dropped down the well in the pretense it was a trapped child:

That little Timmy is a real hero.
What makes him a hero, Dad?
Well, he fell down the well and ... can't get out.
How does that make him a hero?
Well, it's more than you did!

It just seems to be a default view of anyone who volunteers for anything dangerous. I'm sure some of them do stuff which is heroic, and it's certainly more than I would do but it is a choice.

[FirebirdNC]

I can't argue with any of these points. I joined the Army way back when to get out of my home town and get an education, but doesn't everyone want to be called a hero for doing something that could ultimately result in your death? I don't use that word lightly by any means and it should certainly be earned not just fallen into like Timmy.

[Rorschach]

That's more-or-less how I see it. It's quid-pro-quo, isn't it? You volunteer, you do your stint, and you gain skills or knowledge or whatever in return.
I'm sure there are some people that join up out of patriotism or desperation, and I'm not having a pop at that; I was so miserable at Uni, I nearly signed up for the army which was recruiting there at the time before my natural cowardice made me hide in bed until the notion had passed.
Three Kings is an awfully good modern war movie. And I think the first one, or certainly one of the first ones that I saw, that normalised the army and showed people as being good, bad, stupid, cynical, heroic, shitty, noble, and racist. And most places in-between.

I'm not even going to touch feminism. They don't like it. :p

[Deacon]

I think it's really since 9/11 that it's really taken up a notch because people were so bitterly divided on the second Bush picking up where his dad left off and invading Iraq. The idea that some kid driving a forklift in a warehouse in Germany is applauded as he makes his way through an airport or whatever, people thanking him for his service, I never saw that much before the right made such a manipulative move to say even if you disagree with unilaterally invading countries on the basis that it's a Tuesday, you should support the troops. Right after 9/11 there was a surge of people volunteering for the military because their souls were stirred by the tragedy of that day, and how terrible it would be to tell them you disagree with them? So let's everyone pretend everyone in a uniform is putting his life on the line to save orphans.

[Deacon]

If your argument for controlling others can't be made without "well my god says..." then your argument is invalid.

No belief has a right to be respected. Beliefs aren't people. If you believe the earth is flat and the universe revolved around it, I don't have to respect your belief. If you've been brainwashed into believing that there's an invisible wizard in the sky that people leverage for power and riches, I don't have to respect that, either. It may be more effective to kill them with kindness or flies, vinegar, honey, et al, you have no right to not hear anything against it.

[Deacon]

I feel like such a downer. No one--NO ONE--likes to be called on bullshit, even if it's inconsequential and 100% scientific bullshit. Oh, put a high pH chemical concoction like baking soda in your naturally low-pH hair instead of "chemicals" finely tuned to clean and condition your hair and scalp like shampoo? Wonderful. Hoping to shock it back the other way with low pH chemicals in apple cider vinegar to try fruitlessly to balance out the damage you're doing with baking soda? Even better. But for fuck's sake don't suggest that mom who shares it on Facebook look into it further before trying it herself.

Local auction company announcing an auction as a fundraiser for a local church? Don't dare ask what the fundraiser is for, exactly, how they plan to use the money. While it's a given that anything they use it for will be designed to push their religion, anyone who wants to know if they're using it for themselves (building makeover, tax-free CEO salaries) or at least for some sort of charity program is an asshole. So no, I don't bother asking.

Some Facebook page trying to drum up views posts picture of random unnamed person and says to type "amen" if you support some sort of faith healing or something about our troops? Definitely don't ask who or where the supposed story came from, and why people are supporting some random Facebook page instead of donating time or money to help an actual person.

Some blogger used a study showing a vague correlation between higher rates of dollar menu purchases in low income areas than a stay at home mom making fresh organic salads in the affluent suburbs to claim proof that fast food restaurants cause low grades in impoverished areas? Definitely don't interrupt the echo chamber in which a mom/teacher cocoons herself to ask how that's supposed to work, exactly, what mechanism is at play.

Some jackass "meme" generator with literally millions of followers says a Himalayan salt lamp reduces electromagnet radiation and cleanses the air and a host of other fundamentally ludicrous assertions? Don't point out that a lamp's entire purpose is to generate electromagnetic radiation, and that a lump of minerals strip-mined by near-slave labor in Pakistan, an incandescent bulb jammed in it, and flown to your local Walmart isn't actually all that environmentally friendly. Just let people wallow in their delusions. Facts are stupid, and even the slightest brush with critical thinking sends people into allergic fits.

FUCK. I wish I could find a likeminded woman with whom we could raise a couple kids to help in some tiny way to cancel out the rest of these people. So far not really working out for me.

[Deacon]

A friend of mine "Liked" this post today:



Looking at the Facebook profile of the person who posted it, we see the following additional gems:









ALL of these had THOUSANDS of likes and comments! And who knows how many shares. THOUSANDS. They of course were interspersed with links to miracle potions for flat abs and the like.

And the profile pic of this incredible person who wants to help people?

[Rorschach]

If you're going to ask God to help people with cancer and such, it might be better to ask Him to get involved BEFORE they get cancer and the like.

[FirebirdNC]

Eric you will be traveling a long and bumpy road if you feel the need to point out every time someone does something dumb. People are sheep who rarely think for themselves. I am married to a man who just about foams at the mouth when he gets rung up about the sheeple and their stupidity. I point out to him that a person has to WANT to know the truth and just shouting it at them makes no difference. You would be better off trying to explain Quantum Theory to one of your dogs, at least then they will occasionally wag their tails like they are interested. People DON'T WANT to dig deeper for the most part. Stop wasting your time raging at the machine there are still a lot of people who are thinking for themselves and if you are going to Facebook as a point of reference you might as well go to Walmart for fashion advice.

[Deacon]

Haha points well made... We'll let you stay

[Deacon]

You know, I wonder what the impact of that is, a smile-and-nod approach for conformity and acceptance and a happier life having made peace with giving up aspirations of a better society. I don't think humans today are inherently any more or less receptive to input that doesn't match their existing notions than they ever have been, but it seems like societal acceptance of certain things is at least on the rise. You have examples like creeping closer to a full end to marijuana prohibition, the confirmation that you cannot treat two adults differently under the law based purely on what genitals they were born with (gay marriage), and so forth, but they fall largely under the umbrella of reason.

If we give up entirely on humanity, does it really matter much either way? I know I personally have had my views shaped tremendously by discussions with smart people, and between general aging/mellowing/maturing and these inputs, I have changed my positions on many things. Even when a position has not changed, I have been forced to examine my reasoning, run it through a crucible, see how it fares.

I realize that may not be "normal" among my peers, but if everyone just shut up and nodded and smiled, I would never have had those moments. I realize that for many of them, I entered KNOWING it was going to be debated since it was somewhere like the politics sub-forum here. But I've also been challenged when I've just thrown stuff out there elsewhere as a given.

So my guess is that in the end most people's recommendation would be to just swallow it, nod and smile, it's all just for fun, let people warm themselves in their fallacies and relax in their own echo chamber or feedback loop, that there's not enough tact in the world for most people to accept anything other than complete agreement. But is that really what's best for society as a whole, both short-term and long-term? Or since we're all worm food soon anyway, what does it really matter to any individual?

I feel like I'm on a hike, taking a leak in the woods, and the wind keeps shifting so that I'm always pissing into the wind. I realize that's certainly due in part to the fact that I'm not now nor have ever really been a cool guy, charming to most, or generally tactful. Few people have ever wanted my friendship or approval, and I'm not sure anyone has ever needed it, so why would they give half a shit unless they themselves were already open to discussion?

I guess it doesn't help that at the moment I feel very alone, very vulnerable to the whims of others, and in me that naturally causes a defiant response. Fuck you, I don't need you. Except I kind of do, still. Feeling lost and unloved at the same time isn't a great combo, especially when you end up feeling excluded by your closest friends. And that goes double for when you thought you had found a sexy lady who really liked you for you, only to have them disappear without explanation. So even though you normally make a mess of things purely innocently, now you add a little defiance to the mix, and it's even less successful. Ugh.

[NorthernComfort]

Eh most people suck and I rarely agree with other people because their conclusions are wrong or their methods are wrong or their biases dictate their thinking or maybe they have shitty grammar and don't appreciate my intellect and run-on sentences.

people can fuck right off

so i'm right there with ya

[Deacon]

That was beautiful.