Wimmen's football

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Rorschach
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Wimmen's football

Post by Rorschach » Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:34 pm

http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/soccer ... 36996.html

It's actually a pretty good shot. I wonder how many takes were needed
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Re: Wimmen's football

Post by The Cid » Thu Jul 25, 2013 7:42 pm

Is the women's game a relatively big deal in Europe? I realize it's not going to be comparable to the men's game, but is women's Euro a thing that people care about?

I ask because, in the US, our women's national team is probably more well-known (in terms of players anyway) than the men. Granted, the women's national team is a serious competitor and the men's team is still trying to get to that level, but still.
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Re: Wimmen's football

Post by Rorschach » Sat Jul 27, 2013 9:18 am

I honestly don't know. Some European countries are more interested in football than others, but I don't know that that interest carries over to women's football.

Scotland - albeit in a rather parochial fashion - is pretty keen on the game, but I don't think we're that bothered about this tourney. Is it still in? Who won?

Although without checking, I'm almost certain the female Scotland squad is ranked higher by FIFA than the male. I still wouldn't watch Scotland vs Bulgaria. Brazil vs Portugal, on the other hand... :D

Also, Hope Solo.
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Wimmen's football

Post by Deacon » Sat Jul 27, 2013 2:34 pm

Women's football? Call it wootball.


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Re: Wimmen's football

Post by TheUnpredictable » Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:09 am

I used to live in Germany for a few years and I also know that ad! Germans are in general also quite interested in women´s football. Nowhere near men´s football of course but they show it on TV and there have been public viewing options for the Euro championschip, which the German women won - again. I´m not really into it though.
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Re: Wimmen's football

Post by The Cid » Mon Jul 29, 2013 1:37 pm

Rorschach wrote:Scotland - albeit in a rather parochial fashion - is pretty keen on the game
I kind of feel that most sports are followed this way, most notably international ones. Particularly in Europe, and particularly this sport. I guess all those centuries of everyone in Europe hating everyone else have created a kind of rivalry.

Here, our entire drive toward getting better on the pitch is kind of based around "Europe is laughing at us so it's on now." It wouldn't be the first time, did wonders for our country's ability in golf. Moreover, our biggest moment in hockey is less of a hockey thing and more of a "screw the Soviet Union with a spiked iron pole" thing.

Even with pro sports, it's often a case of Our City versus Their City or Our Region vs. Their Region. (Or, in some of the best moments, "Our town vs. Their Giant City and All Of The Money." Which, as I understand it, sums up the FA.)
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Re: Wimmen's football

Post by Rorschach » Tue Jul 30, 2013 11:59 am

It sums up most European football, unfortunately.

I dunno, it's probably the massive arsehole in me, but I couldn't watch any of the women's Euro's without thinking 'Yeah, I'd be better than her' in the same way that I can't watch any Paralympics without thinking 'Yeah, I could do that'.
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Re: Wimmen's football

Post by Deacon » Tue Jul 30, 2013 2:17 pm

I don't know, man. At the very top levels of any sport, the number of men who'd be better than the women playing shrinks to a very small selection.
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Re: Wimmen's football

Post by BtEO » Tue Jul 30, 2013 3:32 pm

This.

A large part of what keeps women's sports from being more visible is that it's not visible; this leads to less interest from girls as they're growing up and a smaller pool of competitors to draw from. But those who do persevere will run rings around casual players of either gender.

Tennis is a notable outlier in this respect. I doubt you've ever watched a women's tennis match and thought you could compete on the court against either player — because it's more visible, and thus (even with the short skirts) gets more respect. Even if you know that a fair chunk of the top ranked mens players would have no trouble that's still only a few hundred at the more generous estimates before you get into the territory where the differences between players of either gender would be more a matter of technique than physique.

If womens football got more visibility (easy in these days of digital TV and internet streaming) it would get more respect, making it a more viable option[1] for girls who are interested in sport. The pool of players available to be taken into youth leagues and more formal training would increase, and overall quality would increase — leagues would be able to expand and fit more teams making even more visibility an easy choice.

Plus it would piss off all the misogynists who think (whether they realise it or not) that women should stick to feminine pursuits and not be seen except viewed through the lens of physical attractiveness; that's surely as good a reason as any to aim for this.
[1] I would guess most top level female players are primed to sucker punch the next guy tells them football isn't for girls in a manner akin to Buzz Aldrin encountering a vocal moon landing hoax advocate.

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Re: Wimmen's football

Post by Rorschach » Tue Jul 30, 2013 3:52 pm

Oh, I don't believe it. I just think it.

Is that misogyny? Sounds more like plain old sexism.
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Re: Wimmen's football

Post by BtEO » Tue Jul 30, 2013 4:38 pm

There's a fine line between the two, probably defined by difference between the people who consciously think that women (and men) should be corralled into specific roles and those who are merely unaware that their words and actions might support such.

Misogyny would be the concept, sexism the actions that result from that. So consciously buying into the concept suggests an active dislike or hatred (and this applies even in relationships, as hatred when a woman does not respond as expected ends up being the more powerful emotion than love.)

Merely doing wrong without realising the deeper consequences (and this applies to racism, homophobia, etc… too) should reflect worse on society than on you. Until you're called out on it, when it becomes an active choice to continue or not.

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Re: Wimmen's football

Post by Deacon » Tue Jul 30, 2013 5:23 pm

I think you're misapplying terms, by the way. Misogyny is very different than someone who sort of feels uncomfortable around people of a different race and is ashamed by it and tries to cover it up but can't seem to help it. Misogyny, just like misanthropy, requires an active hatred. When you try to artificially expand terms that have meaning to cover a larger swath of people in order to increase their shame, you may hit a few points in the short term but in the long term rob it of its power as people recognize that it's unreasonable. Misogyny and sexism are real things. Don't draft well-meaning people into it unless you're prepared to put them on trial and win.

Well, that and I struggle with the more extreme reactions to and definitions of whatever -ism is involved. It's true that you can misjudge people, and in a perfect world you would never judge a book at all, by its cover or otherwise. But the real world is such that we continually take in data points from the world around us and must make judgment calls about what the data means and how we should react to it. What some people call "profiling" mother nature calls common sense that's been bred into us so that we don't think maybe THIS lion is actually cute and friendly, not like those others. And outliers do not a foundation make. Women are physically weaker than men. Sure, it's a venn diagram, with exceptionally strong women and exceptionally weak men, but those are exceptions. It's not shameful that women are weaker than men, in the same way that it's not shameful to men that women are better multitaskers than men.

To me, there's way too much screw-faced, foot-stamping, shrill insistence than there is no difference at all between genders, cultures, races, and so forth, and not enough enforcement that those differences do not make anyone inherently "less than" nor "more than" and that they do not necessarily have to define us as individuals. Recognizing a culture for its strengths and learning from its weaknesses is instantly labeled racism, and because the term (much like sexism) has been so hammered and stretched to fit whatever it needs to at the time to make someone righteous, it has led to the idea that even allowing yourself to recognize differences should be flagellated mercilessly from your wretched mind. People say, "I don't see color," instead of the vastly more noble, "I don't value people differently based on their color." A failure to see color speaks of a pathetic lack of awareness or a tragic delusion, not a noble spirit.

Sorry, got off on kind of a rant, there, but it's really annoying when people try to equate anything less than worship as hate. Then again, maybe I'm just sensitive to that.
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Re: Wimmen's football

Post by BtEO » Tue Jul 30, 2013 11:53 pm

Deacon wrote:Sorry, got off on kind of a rant, there, but it's really annoying when people try to equate anything less than worship as hate. Then again, maybe I'm just sensitive to that.
Yeah looking again at the posts I made what I was trying to say is far closer to what you actually just wrote than what I did. The key part is how you react when someone points out that something you did/said might be worth avoiding in the future. Some people people do take such criticism and double-down on it (though sometimes the criticism itself can be inartfully delivered) and that's where the line risks being crossed.

And yeah, the whole different but equal thing does need higher prominence, but there's always the question of what's learned from society and what's pure biology. Building muscle mass is easier with more testosterone, so… that's probably biology. But is multitasking a skill learned or built into genes; it's known that women perform better at maths if they're told that women perform better than men, and worse if they're told the opposite? Assuming something is fixed by biology when it may in fact not be becomes self-fulfilling — and the general trend, at least as far as gender is concerned is toward a smaller group of immutable differences than previously assumed.

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Re: Wimmen's football

Post by Rorschach » Sun Aug 04, 2013 8:16 pm

I love you, man. I really do. But I sometimes think your inner female needs a good pumping.

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