Police brutality

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Re: Police brutality

Post by Deacon » Mon May 03, 2010 4:29 pm

Lucksi wrote:Or am I just totally bigoted against US cops?
Yes. Of the claims of police brutality, precious few are legitimate, and you hear about every single one...
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Re: Police brutality

Post by Rorschach » Mon May 03, 2010 4:55 pm

I don't buy it, Lucksi.
Although I'd like to as it's well-known in Scotland that all Police are Masons, Rangers fans, racist and anti-Catholic.
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Re: Police brutality

Post by adciv » Mon May 03, 2010 11:30 pm

Well, I would like to start with, what was going on at the time? Why were the police in full riot gear? How are police trained to react to 'insert group here' attacking/harming/hampering the police?

About the best I could possible explain, would be that the officer thought the woman was trying to do something to the one who tripper over her, I'd imagine those helmets don't offer the best views, and so treated her as if she were violently acting against the police.
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Re: Police brutality

Post by Arres » Tue May 04, 2010 1:30 pm

What gives you the impression that our cops are NOT investigated when they shoot people? The REASON you see this stuff "EVERY WEEK" is BECAUSE we make a big deal about it.
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Re: Police brutality

Post by Deacon » Tue May 04, 2010 10:55 pm

And also because it's still an unusual and shocking phenomenon. Though often what you don't hear is the story buried after the Obituaries or some other similarly overlooked section of the paper three weeks later that it turns out there's more to the story than what had been reported earlier.

In this case I have no idea what happened, but it looks ridiculous. The thing is, I want to know what exactly went on that caused several cops to spring instantly into action in a coordinated manner like that. It's not like one cop ran up and started punching the dude, and then his buddies were cheering him on and decided to join in the fun. So until we find out what happened, it's difficult for me to jump to any conclusions. Maybe that's also partly because my father is a federal LEO (and has been since I was six) and I know a number of local PD as well.

There are definitely some asshole cops out there, and rarely even some dirty cops. They generally end up getting theirs in the end, though, officially or otherwise. Good cops don't generally like asshole cops.

By the way, what's this about "they're judged by judges and not their own"? Who do you think determines whether charges should be brought and presides over the proceedings?

EDIT: PS Germany has a quarter of the population of the US and I don't know what the cops-to-others ratio is, but the cops here number probably millions more (especially considering you usually have city, county sheriffs, county constables, state, and federal law enforcement), and you are GOING to have more instances of bad apples and opportunities for bad decisions as a result.

I don't know what makes you think a person in the US is going to be fundamentally different than a person in Germany, regardless of whether that person's job is to enforce the law.
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Re: Police brutality

Post by adciv » Wed May 05, 2010 12:16 am

The rest of what I would say is covered by the above two.
Lucksi wrote:But that doesn´t change the fact that you don´t kick someone who is no threat and not attacking you.
So, if they are attacking another cop, but not you, you still don't attack them? I asked the questions I did as I was trying to look at it through the cops gas mask. If I'm in a situation where it looks like another cop is in trouble, I would be coming to their aid, especially when I'm in a situation where I'm expecting a cop to be in trouble.
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Re: Police brutality

Post by Muspar » Wed May 05, 2010 2:47 am

I think it's easy for people sitting in their comfy chairs at a screen to calmly discuss what should be done in a situation, it's probably (as in, it definitely is) very different to be a cop in a hostile situation with adrenaline pumping where you only have a split second to decide how to act and where the wrong decision (or even taking too long to make the right one) can result in serious injury or death. I think there are times when police officers might make the wrong decision and need to be held accountable for it, but I also think it's very easy for people with the luxury of hours to analyze a situation to be too critical of people who had only seconds.

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Re: Police brutality

Post by Seir » Thu May 06, 2010 2:44 am

Lucksi wrote: Or am I just totally bigoted against US cops?
Bigoted. You're the same guy who thought that everyone in the U.S. possessed a firearm and that lawyers were chasing every single ambulance out on the street.
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Re: Police brutality

Post by JuniorMac » Thu May 13, 2010 8:03 am

What pisses me the most is that cops never manage to care and protect for those who don't look like 'criminals'
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Re: Police brutality

Post by Rorschach » Thu May 13, 2010 8:13 am

That looks like a fascinating site. I assume. My work PC has blocked it under 'malicious site'.
Maybe if you include it on your sig, you'll get more hits.
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Re: Police brutality

Post by Sophira » Sat May 22, 2010 1:17 am

Arres wrote:What gives you the impression that our cops are NOT investigated when they shoot people? The REASON you see this stuff "EVERY WEEK" is BECAUSE we make a big deal about it.
I think you're more likely to see it every week in the US because our population is over 300 million and Germany's is under 100 million. Not that it's the only reason, but it seems significant, no?
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Re: Police brutality

Post by SevTiZ » Sat May 22, 2010 6:09 pm

Yeah, that would also explain why the US thinks all the weirdos are in Texas (and California and New York). Sure, there are weirdos in every state, but those three states have the highest proportion of the national population.

...said the one-time Californian. The region I grew up in has a higher population (3 million+) than the entire state (2.7 million)!
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Re: Police brutality

Post by adciv » Sat May 22, 2010 6:19 pm

Heh. The County (pop 1M) has more people than seven states and most cities.

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Re: Police brutality

Post by Martin Blank » Sun May 23, 2010 3:39 pm

Lucksi wrote:Every week there is a report of police beating/tasing the crap out of "criminals" or just bystanders and every time there is a coverup and maybe, if you are lucky, there is video of the event and charges against you will eventually be dropped and all the cop gets is a paid vacation and be found not guilty of any wrongdoing by other cops (how convenient).
The use of tasers may be getting a bit out of hand (based just on anecdotal evidence), but the system here is very different from what you portray. The cop isn't put on paid vacation, but either desk duty or paid administrative leave, so that they don't go broke if what they were doing is found to have been legal. In many cases (and I think most or all that involve a shooting), they are also required to surrender their service weapon during the investigation. The initial investigation is usually undertaken by the Internal Affairs Division (or equivalent), a group that seems to be under pretty much universal suspicion by other cops, as their job is to find out if a cop has done something wrong. The district attorney also gets involved, and if there's something to it, the case can go to court, and cops are sometimes found guilty.

Part of the reason for reason that things get so well-publicized here is a mix of two things:
  • The duty of the press to report on the happenings of government to keep the people informed and the government in check
  • The need to get higher ratings to improve ad revenues
The first is idealism, the second is cynicism, and the reality is a bit of both. Most journalists get into the field because they want people to know the story. Most cops get in the field because they want to protect the community. There are some people who get into journalism for the salacious details, and some cops that get in the field for the power. The police academies do try to root out the latter, and do a decent job. A cop may have a chip on his shoulder because he's a dick, because he's had a bad day, or because people presume that he has a chip on his shoulder and act accordingly.

There are a lot of variables that go into it, just as in so many other things. Most cops I've talked to are good, hard-working people who have and will continue to put themselves in harm's way to protect the populace. I have to give them credit for that.
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Re: Police brutality

Post by collegestudent22 » Sun Jun 13, 2010 4:00 am

cop may have a chip on his shoulder because he's a dick, because he's had a bad day, or because people presume that he has a chip on his shoulder and act accordingly.
Or because he is upset at a system that forces abuse of power (not brutality, there is a difference) through quotas of "catching criminals". (Specifically referring to traffic cops here, which is what most people interact with normally.)

Also, shouldn't this be in SPPACE?
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