ok who else is getting tired of this

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collegestudent22
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Re: ok who else is getting tired of this

Post by collegestudent22 » Wed Nov 05, 2008 11:35 pm

Greg Dean wrote:crimes for which he was never even convicted.
Yes, because we should all ignore the fact that afterwards he admitted he committed the crimes, and only avoided conviction on a technicality. Right....

Furthermore, I know the implication is not meaningful. In fact, I doubt it would not have been brought up had it not been for his other associations.
Greg Dean wrote:and he was a functioning member of society that seemed like a decent fellow, and I gave him the benefit of the doubt and looked past what he may have done in the past, that would make me a terrorist?
Bill Ayers in no way fits this qualification. He is still unrepentant, and even claims that the bombings didn't go far enough.
Frédéric Bastiat wrote:And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works.
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Mae Dean
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Re: ok who else is getting tired of this

Post by Mae Dean » Wed Nov 05, 2008 11:49 pm

I would like to add that I removed the "Crimes he was never convicted" bit like, 20 seconds after I posted that, before there were any responses. I realize that wasn't really meaningful.

Look, the dude's a college professor. He's not out there doing any of this crap anymore, and he HAS been remorseful - he has apologized for his part in things. One quote does not negate the other.

God, I'm not even arguing MY point anymore. Allow me to get back on subject - CS22, you're an idiot. There.

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Re: ok who else is getting tired of this

Post by Lizzegirle » Thu Nov 06, 2008 12:02 am

I'm baffled by the fact that no one can seem to look past Bill Ayers. The guy was a young adult who got caught up in a HUGE anti-war movement. It's not like ANYONE got caught up in that crap - ESPECIALLY if they were in their twenties during that time. Ask your parents, they probably made stupid decisions and might have done some shit that they shouldn't have. This guy was worse, yes, but it doesn't mean he's a horrible person. He just got waaaay too caught up (as young adults often do) and went waaaaay too far overboard.

However, I also work for a criminal defense law firm that believes people are inherently good, they just made bad judgments which lead them to crime. So I suppose I'm more willing to look past certain things.
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Re: ok who else is getting tired of this

Post by StruckingFuggle » Thu Nov 06, 2008 12:06 am

And, regardless OF Ayers's status, isn't the extent of Obama's relationship with him rather suspect, too?
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Re: ok who else is getting tired of this

Post by adciv » Thu Nov 06, 2008 12:14 am

Fuggle, yes.

Liz, He was 26 when he bombed the NYPD HQ. 27 when he bombed the capital building. 28 when he planted a bomb in a women's bathroom in the Pentagon. Saying he went 'waaaaay too far overboard' is an understatement. Both my parents were in the military at the time. The quote for not going far enough was in 2000. So no, they didn't get 'caught up in the antiwar movement, other than worrying that the antiwar movement might storm the base they were on and try to hurt them.
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Re: ok who else is getting tired of this

Post by Deacon » Thu Nov 06, 2008 12:16 am

Greg Dean wrote:But the way it's been stated, if I happened to meet the guy, and he was a functioning member of society that seemed like a decent fellow, and I gave him the benefit of the doubt and looked past what he may have done in the past, that would make me a terrorist? Or at the very least, a terrorist sympathizer? I think that's a little far to be stretching, if you ask me.
The problem with that, Greg, is that he's said he does not in any way regret what he's done and only wishes he'd managed to pull off more attacks. He was and remains a radical. And despite what the Obama campaign would have you believe, it's not just some dude he'd shaken hands with a couple of times at a charity meeting. Whether or not you believe Obama is a terrorist sympathizer (which I don't), it speaks to his influences and those with whom he chooses to associate and surround himself. The terrorist sympathizer thing is, IMHO, a straw man. It does, though, frustrate the hell outta me that he's spreading his diseased views to malleable college students and getting paid for it--and that it's being used to increase his credibility.
Lizzegirle wrote:I'm baffled by the fact that no one can seem to look past Bill Ayers. The guy was a young adult who got caught up in a HUGE anti-war movement. It's not like ANYONE got caught up in that crap - ESPECIALLY if they were in their twenties during that time. Ask your parents, they probably made stupid decisions and might have done some shit that they shouldn't have. This guy was worse, yes, but it doesn't mean he's a horrible person. He just got waaaay too caught up (as young adults often do) and went waaaaay too far overboard.
Honestly, IMHO there's got to a point where lines are crossed, and I think bombing public buildings counts as crossing that line. What you're saying, the way you're downplaying and trivializing it, would never be accepted for any other terrorist bombing, would it?
However, I also work for a criminal defense law firm that believes people are inherently good, they just made bad judgments which lead them to crime. So I suppose I'm more willing to look past certain things.
Doesn't that law firm try to prevent them from facing the consequences of those crimes? Either way, that's a world view with which I cannot agree. People are not inherently good.
Hirschof wrote:Yes, I'm sure he is here to destroy America. I'm sure he was involved in 9/11. I'm sure he is an operative for Osama. Shit, I'm sure he is best friends with Osama.
Wait, when did we switch to talking about accusations leveled at Bush?
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Re: ok who else is getting tired of this

Post by collegestudent22 » Thu Nov 06, 2008 1:30 am

Deacon wrote:Whether or not you believe Obama is a terrorist sympathizer (which I don't), it speaks to his influences and those with whom he chooses to associate and surround himself. The terrorist sympathizer thing is, IMHO, a straw man. It does, though, frustrate the hell outta me that he's spreading his diseased views to malleable college students and getting paid for it--and that it's being used to increase his credibility.

This. I was trying to say this.
Frédéric Bastiat wrote:And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works.
Count Axel Oxenstierna wrote:Dost thou not know, my son, with how little wisdom the world is governed?

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