ok who else is getting tired of this

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Deacon
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Re: ok who else is getting tired of this

Post by Deacon » Sun Nov 02, 2008 5:26 pm

Baggy, surely you can admit that your bias against Palin colors how you deal with this matters just a wee bit. Most of those are blown way the hell out of proportion. And you can call her an idiot for believing in Biblical creationism, but she's not exactly alone, there. There are tens (is it still hundreds?) of millions of Americans who believe that, who grew up in Christian households and are given "evidence" that's just enough to keep the faithful for wandering too far.
The follies which a man regrets the most in his life are those which he didn't commit when he had the opportunity. - Helen Rowland, A Guide to Men, 1922

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Re: ok who else is getting tired of this

Post by bagheadinc » Sun Nov 02, 2008 5:57 pm

Deacon wrote:Baggy, surely you can admit that your bias against Palin colors how you deal with this matters just a wee bit.
Actually I'm republican. There is a good chance I would have voted for McCain if not for Palin. I just find her incredibly ignorant. SHE DOESN'T EVEN KNOW WHAT THE VICE PRESIDENT DOES!
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Re: ok who else is getting tired of this

Post by Deacon » Sun Nov 02, 2008 6:08 pm

Dude, you've been bashing Palin ever since she was first introduced...
The follies which a man regrets the most in his life are those which he didn't commit when he had the opportunity. - Helen Rowland, A Guide to Men, 1922

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Re: ok who else is getting tired of this

Post by bagheadinc » Sun Nov 02, 2008 6:12 pm

Uhhh...where are you getting that from?
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Re: ok who else is getting tired of this

Post by Terrene » Sun Nov 02, 2008 6:18 pm

Yeah I think you just started yesterday.

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Re: ok who else is getting tired of this

Post by bagheadinc » Sun Nov 02, 2008 6:23 pm

Well, I made a comment in the McCain/Obama thread a week or two ago, but she was announced in August.
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Re: ok who else is getting tired of this

Post by collegestudent22 » Sun Nov 02, 2008 8:33 pm

bagheadinc wrote: 2) She had NO clue what the Bush doctrine is.
Do you? Because there are many different things that have been dubbed the "Bush doctrine" by the press.
4) She thinks man and dinosaurs co-existed.
Has nothing to do with being the President or VP.....
jonathan wrote:and before someone starts sticking up for Bush, yes you are part of a very small minority, the guy has the lowest dissaporval rating since Grant
Umm.... according to the Gallup poll it is around 35%. And Truman's was much lower, with only 22%. I believe he was after Grant there, buddy.
bagheadinc wrote: Here she is not knowing about McCain's regulations
Does Biden know any of Obama's regulations and bills? Hard to tell, because no one in the media would ask him the QUESTION!
Here she is not knowing what she reads
People still read newspapers? From that interview, all I picked up was that she doesn't read the newspapers regularly, just picks them up occasionally. What, is it now a requirement to read the Times in order to be VP?
Here she is not knowing any Supreme Court decisions
Hell, neither do I. I would have to look them up. Is it important right now? Hell no. You might have a point with her lack of knowledge on the economy, but THAT'S WHAT ADVISORS ARE FOR.... Even if, god forbid, she went from VP to President because something happened to McCain, she would have his advisors to help her sort out the economy and other issues. She doesn't need to know about everything right now. McCain does.
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Re: ok who else is getting tired of this

Post by StruckingFuggle » Sun Nov 02, 2008 8:51 pm

collegestudent22 wrote:
4) She thinks man and dinosaurs co-existed.
Has nothing to do with being the President or VP.....
Really? I think it does. Whatever mindset allows her to honestly hold this belief is one that is less-suited to being a politician, especially the president, which as VP, she might end up being. If she's an idiot, a fool, or so dismissive of science on the grounds of bare "evidence" (that's not) and faith, well then yes, those are bad qualities for a president to have. VP, not so much as it's a relatively harmless position, but it has a good bit to do with being the president, yes.


jonathan wrote:and before someone starts sticking up for Bush, yes you are part of a very small minority, the guy has the lowest dissaporval rating since Grant
Umm.... according to the Gallup poll it is around 35%. And Truman's was much lower, with only 22%. I believe he was after Grant there, buddy.[/quote]

Try ten points lower.

And even if he's not the worst president by percentages ever (though you can't make a straight comparison of % to %, it's fairly meaningless based on the huge difference in time and the highly likely possibility of the data coming from two rather different samples/populations)... he comes close. And he doesn't need the lowest ever approval ratings ever to be considered a rather shitty president.

Which is another issue with approval rating, that could go either way - it only measures binary (trinary?) ... it doesn't measure magnitude of approval / disapproval. I bet if you measured that, too, that Bush would come out rather polarized.

bagheadinc wrote:Does Biden know any of Obama's regulations and bills? Hard to tell, because no one in the media would ask him the QUESTION!
So? If it matters they know, then it's still a knock against Palin, too, eh? And if it doesn't matter, then why care they haven't asked? Don't avoid the point with something rather irrelevant to the matter at hand.

People still read newspapers?
Um, yes.
From that interview, all I picked up was that she doesn't read the newspapers regularly, just picks them up occasionally. What, is it now a requirement to read the Times in order to be VP?
No, but it helps to be informed, and if she's not reading papers but staying informed, a smart person who does so would have brought that up, and said "not many, but I get my information from elsewhere", rather than ramble on for a minute and try to think of an answer to cover her ass before fleeing off to some tangent.
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Re: ok who else is getting tired of this

Post by Deacon » Sun Nov 02, 2008 9:02 pm

bagheadinc wrote:Well, I made a comment in the McCain/Obama thread a week or two ago, but she was announced in August.
I didn't say underlying political bias. But you're right, I guess the "I don't know how anyone can say that Palin isn't a joke with a straight face" comment stuck out more in my mind. It's more than a little disappointing, the base and relentlessly vicious way in which this lady's been treated by the press that hasn't even bothered veiling their intentions, and more especially how many people have bought into it. Whether or not you think she's the best candidate in the history of Vice Presidential candidates, she's not nearly as "bad" as she's been continually cast by people so eager to see her fail.
StruckingFuggle wrote:Really? I think it does. Whatever mindset allows her to honestly hold this belief is one that is less-suited to being a politician, especially the president, which as VP, she might end up being.
That's not actually true. Not just because it's a pure opinion presented as fact, but because it's factually wrong. Believing the same way your constituents believe is the ultimate in being well suited to being a politician. If it were purely about intellectual pursuits, things wouldn't look anything like they do now.
If she's an idiot, a fool, or so dismissive of science on the grounds of bare "evidence" (that's not) and faith, well then yes, those are bad qualities for a president to have.
And you've just called pretty much every Christian an idiot and a fool. While you may not have a problem with that, it's difficult to say out there in the political arena and survive, because those foolish idiots have a vote, too.
Does Biden know any of Obama's regulations and bills? Hard to tell, because no one in the media would ask him the QUESTION!
So? If it matters they know, then it's still a knock against Palin, too, eh?
Are you seriously incapable of grasping the problem with this attack-dog approach to interviews of only one candidate while the other candidate gets a pass?
And if it doesn't matter, then why care they haven't asked?
Nobody would care if people like you weren't trying to make it such an issue.
if she's not reading papers but staying informed, a smart person who does so would have brought that up
I know many intelligent people who aren't the classic slick, smooth politician able to come up with a properly vague, good-enough answer on the fly, especially while being skewered and grilled for the first time in front of a national audience by a hostile, nonreciprocating host.
The follies which a man regrets the most in his life are those which he didn't commit when he had the opportunity. - Helen Rowland, A Guide to Men, 1922

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Re: ok who else is getting tired of this

Post by bagheadinc » Sun Nov 02, 2008 10:25 pm

oKAY THIS IS terene posting because I am too lazy to log out and in-


Deacon if you can find me some reason to believe that this woman is indeed qualified to be a vp please show me. I mean christ how you can defend this woman. Are you doing it just so you can feel superior to everyone else?
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Re: ok who else is getting tired of this

Post by StruckingFuggle » Mon Nov 03, 2008 1:03 am

How unqualified is Sarah Palin? All the koolaid in the world is only enough to get her up to "she's not that bad".

:P
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Re: ok who else is getting tired of this

Post by Deacon » Mon Nov 03, 2008 2:36 am

bagheadinc wrote:oKAY THIS IS terene posting because I am too lazy to log out and in-
And too lazy to add the second R in your name? :P
terrene wrote:Deacon if you can find me some reason to believe that this woman is indeed qualified to be a vp please show me. I mean christ how you can defend this woman. Are you doing it just so you can feel superior to everyone else?
Yes, I'm saying the criticism of Palin has been overblown by an overzealous news media not because it's true but because...if I say so I can feel superior to everyone else? I don't get the math on that one. Who was Kerry's VP candidate? Nobody even remembers because nobody really cares about the VP and how "qualified" they are for what is largely a job with little authority and little more than a speaking engagement position. The only reason anyone's even bringing it up is because they've allowed themselves to become convinced by the Democrat/media talking points that John McCain is going to finish his inaugural oaths and drop dead on the platform from some sort of vague, unnamed and hitherto unmanifested ailment, leaving the nation in the hands of a Democratic House and Senate and a President who can't even think up a good lie on the spot for which publications she reads regularly, as if heads of state get their information not from briefings and news packages put together by aides but rather from reading the newspaper during a leisurely morning at Starbucks. It's one giant, largely manufactured distraction that's been frighteningly effective at keeping people from looking too closely at Obama's voting record (on those relatively few occasions in his lifetime where he's actually voted) and at his statements and at those with whom he chooses to associate, etc. If Obama (much less Biden) were subjected to anywhere the same kind angry spotlight scrutiny as Palin (as compared to simply parroting his campaign promises), then this would be a very different conversation we'd be having right now.
The follies which a man regrets the most in his life are those which he didn't commit when he had the opportunity. - Helen Rowland, A Guide to Men, 1922

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Re: ok who else is getting tired of this

Post by StruckingFuggle » Mon Nov 03, 2008 2:51 am

Deacon wrote:Who was Kerry's VP candidate? Nobody even remembers because nobody really cares about the VP and how "qualified" they are for what is largely a job with little authority and little more than a speaking engagement position.
John Edwards.

The only reason anyone's even bringing it up is because they've allowed themselves to become convinced by the Democrat/media talking points that John McCain is going to finish his inaugural oaths and drop dead on the platform from some sort of vague, unnamed and hitherto unmanifested ailment
No. Not that it WILL happen, or that it would happen RIGHT AWAY, but it's certainly a possibility within the next four years, especially moreso if he becomes President instead of being a Senator ... and certainly moreso than in Obama's case. It's an actual possibility that if McCain's elected, Palin could become president.

And really, the quality of the VP should be considered, "just in case". Palin's just the first time in a long time / ever? that that job is actually being done.

Deacon wrote:Whether or not you think she's the best candidate in the history of Vice Presidential candidates, she's not nearly as "bad" as she's been continually cast by people so eager to see her fail.
You're right. She's worse. :x

StruckingFuggle wrote:That's not actually true. Not just because it's a pure opinion presented as fact, but because it's factually wrong. Believing the same way your constituents believe is the ultimate in being well suited to being a politician. If it were purely about intellectual pursuits, things wouldn't look anything like they do now.
It's a ... 'nice' thought, but it's only a good idea if you have people you can count on to be worth listening to. In fact, it's such a nice thought that I'll be sure to quote you here again the next time someone, especially you, criticizes a politician as bad for changing their stances and what they support to reflect changing poll numbers. Because it's such a horrible thing to reflect what your constituents want.

Even still, fine. Maybe it makes Palin a good politician; it still makes her a bad person to be in political power (which is far, far, far more important).

And you've just called pretty much every Christian an idiot and a fool. While you may not have a problem with that, it's difficult to say out there in the political arena and survive, because those foolish idiots have a vote, too.
Er, no ... I don't think most "every" Christian believes dinosaur and man coexisted, despite evidence to the contrary and no evidence 'to the trary'. My words don't apply to all Christians, or anyone of faith, merely those who hold, in a state of being informed to the contrary, factually incorrect viewpoints, especially on something like "faith" ... much the same as anyone who jumps off a cliff because despite evidence to the contrary, and plenty of evidence otherwise, they have faith that they can fly. It's a special, stupid kind of blind, blinding faith.

Are you seriously incapable of grasping the problem with this attack-dog approach to interviews of only one candidate while the other candidate gets a pass?
:roll: Yes. I grasp the problem. But it's also irrelevant and unrelated to the tactic at hand. Nice red herring, though... which reminds me, I should go make some dinner.

I know many intelligent people who aren't the classic slick, smooth politician able to come up with a properly vague, good-enough answer on the fly, especially while being skewered and grilled for the first time in front of a national audience by a hostile, nonreciprocating host.
They'd at least likely be able to come up with an honest reply, instead of just floundering.
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Re: ok who else is getting tired of this

Post by Healer24 » Mon Nov 03, 2008 4:53 am

Deacon wrote:...they've allowed themselves to become convinced by the Democrat/media talking points that John McCain is going to finish his inaugural oaths and drop dead on the platform from some sort of vague, unnamed and hitherto unmanifested ailment
I can think of no man on the planet who would have better health care with doctors constantly monitoring and checking than the President of the United States. Could McCain die in the next four years? Sure. Is it as likely as people are making it out to be? No.
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Re: ok who else is getting tired of this

Post by bagheadinc » Mon Nov 03, 2008 6:51 am

Deacon wrote:Who was Kerry's VP candidate? Nobody even remembers
Really? You think people don't remember John Edwards? It was only four years ago.
Deacon wrote:The only reason anyone's even bringing it up is because they've allowed themselves to become convinced by the Democrat/media talking points that John McCain is going to finish his inaugural oaths and drop dead
I also care that McCain would make such a bad choice.
Deacon wrote:It's one giant, largely manufactured distraction that's been frighteningly effective at keeping people from looking too closely at Obama's voting record (on those relatively few occasions in his lifetime where he's actually voted) and at his statements and at those with whom he chooses to associate, etc. If Obama (much less Biden) were subjected to anywhere the same kind angry spotlight scrutiny as Palin (as compared to simply parroting his campaign promises), then this would be a very different conversation we'd be having right now.
Yeah, yeah, angry liberal media...blah blah blah. Of course they're picking on Palin, because she's an easy target. Just because you get a hardon whenever she winks at the camera doesn't mean she's not horribly unqualified and a terrible choice by McCain.
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