Must. Kill. PUG.

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Deacon
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Re: Must. Kill. PUG.

Post by Deacon » Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:35 pm

Hear hear!
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StruckingFuggle
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Re: Must. Kill. PUG.

Post by StruckingFuggle » Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:43 pm

Arres wrote:Are you HIGH? Warriors are, and have been acknowledged as the superior tanking class. Granted we have trouble holding a million little mobs, but our mitigation and threat generation on the whole are rarely paralleled by the other "tanks".
Never seen it be a significant issue, either in terms of survivability and aggro generation. The only real issues I've seen are Warriors holding agro on multiple mobs versus a party with multiple dpsers who can hit multiple enemies, and it's rare I see a Warrior who can handle that, but it takes a shitty Paladin or mediocre Druid to not keep up.

Can't COUNT the number of times I've been in a group and thought "man, this warrior sucks", or "aw crap, a warrior" and thought "what I wouldn't give for a Paladin" (well, technically, "man, wish Ether was tanking, but failing another Paladin would be nice..."). But other than that, it's kind of an even field in terms of TANKING (as long as there's only, say, two mobs, tops), and then the other classes pull ahead by giving me buffs. What's a warrior going to do, compared to Wis, Salv (why hello there, big dps bump...), or Kings; or jumping Crit by almost 5.5%? Give me melee AP? USELESS. Give me more HP? Nice, sure, but comparatively....... /shrug

Also, so ... acknowledged by who? I mean, sure, link me to something by someone like Elitist Jerks showing me the math and I'll cede the point, but for now you need to back up that statement, especially considering that you PLAY a Warrior. :P

Failcasters and lolbears are not tanks. They just THINK they are, and somehow Blizz has gotten confused.[/quot]

Well then, what do you call a "tank"?

... And why do non-warrior classes work so damn well as tanks, if they're not tanks? And isn't the fact they work well as tanks more important than if they're a "tank" or not? ;)

Ah. I see the problem. You don't have any clue how to manage agro, and think "Always" is a good time for AoE. I let your type die on purpose.
Er, no. When the tank can't manage it, I don't do it. Hence being glad to be able to ramp up the group dps and take down mobs faster when I can drop my AoEs TOO. It wouldn't be considered a pro that I could do it when the tank could handle it if did it all the time. I see the problem - you don't know how to pay attention to everything and figure out what it means.... what the hell kind of tank are you? :P
Last edited by StruckingFuggle on Thu Aug 21, 2008 11:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Must. Kill. PUG.

Post by Nukinblackmage » Thu Aug 21, 2008 11:05 pm

MAP does give you RAP.
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Re: Must. Kill. PUG.

Post by spikegirl7 » Fri Aug 22, 2008 12:57 am

When you say two shadow priests are enough DPS remember that you are talking to a well-geared fury warrior, which means that their DPS is a pittance compared to what I can do. Shadow priests do ok damage, but not enough to make me stand in awe of their awesomeness.

True, on multiple target pulls warriors aren't the best tanks (I vote druids are) but that doesn't mean that they aren't more than capable. Arres (or is it Marrs?) is a wonderful tank and I have heard only good things of him. However on single target boss fights warriors are unmatched, and that must be acknowledged.
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Re: Must. Kill. PUG.

Post by StruckingFuggle » Fri Aug 22, 2008 2:32 am

spikegirl7 wrote:When you say two shadow priests are enough DPS remember that you are talking to a well-geared fury warrior, which means that their DPS is a pittance compared to what I can do. Shadow priests do ok damage, but not enough to make me stand in awe of their awesomeness.
And on their own, a Shadow Priest isn't a perfect DPS class - it's just a battery that is a midrange dps class and "dps-enabler", when grouped with things like Shamans or Hunters, allowing them to use more mana and thus deal more damage.

Two Shadow Priests, you'll remember I said "wtf?", rather than "are enough dps", as I think the former, not the latter.
True, on multiple target pulls warriors aren't the best tanks (I vote druids are) but that doesn't mean that they aren't more than capable. Arres (or is it Marrs?) is a wonderful tank and I have heard only good things of him. However on single target boss fights warriors are unmatched, and that must be acknowledged.
Okay, I'll admit that...

...But still maintain that the disparity isn't THAT GREAT, and that all other considerations result in the Warrior NOT being the best overall tank (especially in 5-man content, where the opportunity cost is higher for bringing one class over another, since you only get 5).
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Re: Must. Kill. PUG.

Post by Jamie Bond » Fri Aug 22, 2008 3:58 pm

Origional post: Another reason why non-consensual PvP is good for games.

I've grouped with people like that in open PvP games... Usually someone ends up dieing. SO much more interesting :)
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Re: Must. Kill. PUG.

Post by Springy » Sat Aug 23, 2008 1:45 pm

In my experience, Paladins make some of the worst tanks I've ever played with. They are decent at keeping aggro but if they lose aggro there seems to be nothing they can do to get it back quickly.

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Re: Must. Kill. PUG.

Post by Nukinblackmage » Sat Aug 23, 2008 2:06 pm

You've never played with a good Paladin tank then. I wouldn't step foot into Mount Hyjal without a Paladin tank. Paladins DO have a taunt button that takes not one but up to three mobs off a target.
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Re: Must. Kill. PUG.

Post by Springy » Mon Aug 25, 2008 11:42 am

That's probably it. I had found a good paladin tank but she just respecced, so she's useless to me now :p

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Re: Must. Kill. PUG.

Post by Rorschach » Mon Aug 25, 2008 12:48 pm

I thought this thread was going to be about dogs. What is this strange jargon?
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Re: Must. Kill. PUG.

Post by edge » Mon Aug 25, 2008 1:49 pm

While we're on the topic of LOL'able PuGs, I think the most memorable person I've seen was this warlock, decked head to toe in healing gear. I couldn't wrap my head around the whole thing enough to even ask him what he was thinking. This wasn't even someone that was leveling, this was a group I was in for Mech :P

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Re: Must. Kill. PUG.

Post by Arres » Mon Aug 25, 2008 2:45 pm

StruckingFuggle wrote:...But still maintain that the disparity isn't THAT GREAT, and that all other considerations result in the Warrior NOT being the best overall tank (especially in 5-man content, where the opportunity cost is higher for bringing one class over another, since you only get 5).
Of COURSE the disparity isn't that great, but a statement dripping with "lulz paladin tanks make me horny" must be responded to. I am assured that would notice the difference FAR more if you were a healer. Additionally, I'm amazed you haven't noticed that paladin tanks have to sit down CONSTANTLY. Water is for cloth wearer's ya pansy asses! Lolcaster's aint tanks. ;)
Spikegirl wrote:Arres (or is it Marrs?)
sigh...it's both. I haven't got two damn brain cells to rub together and leveled warrior to 70 twice.
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Re: Must. Kill. PUG.

Post by Tigger » Mon Aug 25, 2008 6:10 pm

As long as a pally tank has a healer along, chances are they will not have mana issues. Pally's have a wonderful ability that gives them mana back when they are healed by someone other than themselves. As a tank, this equates to a blue rage bar that starts out full and doesn't empty out!

I'm a holy pally, but have tanked two instances in the past two days (Shattered Halls and UB, both regular). The first one I had a healer, and had no mana issues the second time...and we died a total of 3 times, all of them the result of a pull gone wrong but was no one's FAULT that it went wrong. UB - no healer, except what little the elemental shammy could give (and totems don't count for "other heals") and I had some mana issues. I think I only died once, and the boss was near dead when I did it. I can't imagine how much better these would have gone with a real tank, or a real healer.
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Arres
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Re: Must. Kill. PUG.

Post by Arres » Mon Aug 25, 2008 6:50 pm

It is a cruel irony that the better my tanking gear gets the less rage I generate.
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Re: Must. Kill. PUG.

Post by spikegirl7 » Tue Aug 26, 2008 2:45 am

I know it's sad but I have to say the best PUG I have been in for quite some time happened a couple days ago in the beta. I took my Warrior into Ramps with four death knights. No healer, no tank. But everyone got along and the run went smoothly. Everyone knew (more or less) what they were doing and when we did wipe (once) we just regrouped and ran it again with a different tactic.

A lot of the suffering that I encounter with PUGs could be alleviated with a bit more patience and better communication.

Also, I feel your pain. It has taken me 17 days and I am still not to 70 with this stupid warrior.
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