Must. Kill. PUG.

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spikegirl7
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Must. Kill. PUG.

Post by spikegirl7 » Thu Aug 14, 2008 8:08 pm

WoW rant. Forewarned.

I've been WoWing a bit, and have recently got it into my head that I need to start gearing up as at lvl 66 I will soon reach 70 and start raiding. And I'm doing this through the usual method: running as many instances as I can. And many of my guild mates will tell you that I have been doing so through PUGing.

Around level 43 I came to the conclusion that dungeons were completed in spite of the PUG, and not because of it. This meant that I had to go into every group determined to get through that instance. I've told you I'm not a great tank, but you still want me as a tank? Ok. Telling me how to do my job? Go ahead, I can ignore you all day. Getting angry about every pull? Moan all you want, we will STILL finish this instance.

Once I got to level 58 I noticed that the number of bad PUGs dropped dramatically. When I say "not a tank" people say "ok" and then go look for another tank while I do DPS or agree to go slow and understand to be careful about aggro. People seem to have figured out what they are good at and have refined it to be rather good at it. Everybody follows the rules, everybody is courteous, instancing becomes so much more pleasant.

And then, PUGs FROM HELL!!!

I go in with a holy pally, an arcane mage, a warlock, and a hunter. I agree to tank, since I am 65 and it should be rather easy. We're doing Hellfire Ramparts, a lower level outlands instance, but it drops a few things I want. First boss: shoulders drop with a plus to healing.
Pally: "Oh those are an up for me"
Lock: "Up for me"
Pally: "Roll?"
Lock rolls 86 (1-100)
Pally rolls 75 (1-100)
Lock recieves loot.

Second boss down, drops a staff.
Mage: "I really need that staff"
Lock: "that's a nice staff"
Pally: "Let her have the staff, she hasn't got anything yet"
Lock: "she's level 65, she can get something better doing [x quest]"
Pally: "she hasn't got anything yet. She gets the staff"
Lock has selected need for staff
Need roll of 45 for Lock (1-100)
Lock receives staff.

Pally: "Dude! That was her staff!"
Lock: "She can get something better, besides it's an up for me."
Pally: "You ignored the loot rules and took her staff. You already got my healing shoulders, you shouldn't have got the staff when she doesn't get anything."
Lock: "You guys can get better stuff anyways. You're higher level than me."

This is only ended by me threatening to leave and have them tankless for the final fight.

This is only one of a few incidents involving bad PUGs recently. MUST. KILL. This is leading me to the belief that I should only run instances with my guild EVER.
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Re: Must. Kill. PUG.

Post by StruckingFuggle » Thu Aug 14, 2008 9:26 pm

Either with your guild, or extraguild friends, either from offline or ... keep note of people in PUGs who perform well, as they likely are in a similar situation to you - offer your services, friend them, ask them if they're not in an instance and you're putting a group together ...

But yeah, random outland pugs usually suck ... though once you hit Heroics it improves a bit, since generally by that people people need to contribute or there's not much in the way of success, except on easymode Heroics like Bot, Mech, and SV.
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Re: Must. Kill. PUG.

Post by adciv » Thu Aug 14, 2008 9:36 pm

Ok, what the hell is PUG?
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Re: Must. Kill. PUG.

Post by The Cid » Thu Aug 14, 2008 9:41 pm

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Re: Must. Kill. PUG.

Post by StruckingFuggle » Thu Aug 14, 2008 9:46 pm

"He who lives by the sword dies by my arrow."

"In your histories, there are continual justifications for all manner of hellish actions. Claims of nobility and heritage and honor to cover up every bit of genocide, assassination, and massacre. At least the Horde is honest in their naked lust for power."

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Re: Must. Kill. PUG.

Post by Tigger » Thu Aug 14, 2008 10:20 pm

PUG's suck ass. I agree with Fuggle though - befriend people you like in a PUG, get to know other people. It helps for several reasons, one of them being that it gives YOUR guild extra resources to call on. You need DPS and have befriended a rogue? Voila...dps. Need a healer, because they're always in short supply? Look at the holy pally you just met the other day. :) I'm often getting asked to come heal for extraguild friends...and I usually end up befriending the rogues, mostly because they're the only ones NOT stuck on themselves. LOL

I have also made a habit of adding people I DON'T ever want to run with again, who seem to have taken a fancy to me because I managed to keep their sorry ass up in a run. I add a note to them in the friends list - do not run/stupid head, did X, ran with in *this* instance, etc. That way when they message me, I can look at my list and see if it's someone I want to run with again or not.
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Re: Must. Kill. PUG.

Post by Arres » Thu Aug 14, 2008 10:25 pm

Spike, that's loot theft. Feel completely justified in posting their name / race /etc to the official realm forum. There used to be a post JUST for that purpose. They can quickly find it difficult to do anything interesting.
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Re: Must. Kill. PUG.

Post by Deacon » Fri Aug 15, 2008 2:49 am

Why they hell wouldn't you have a master looter anyway? And since you seemed to skip that step even after the first time, why wouldn't the mage roll need instead of passing?
The follies which a man regrets the most in his life are those which he didn't commit when he had the opportunity. - Helen Rowland, A Guide to Men, 1922

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Re: Must. Kill. PUG.

Post by Tigger » Fri Aug 15, 2008 4:35 am

Not all instances really require a master looter. I sure as hell wouldn't do it with a PUG. My own guildmates, that I can trust to be fair? Sure. A bunch of stranger? No way.

As for why he needed? Because he sounds like a total ass.
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[quote="bagheadinc";p="724695"]That's because your head is empty and has excellent acoustics. :P[/quote]
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Re: Must. Kill. PUG.

Post by Springy » Wed Aug 20, 2008 1:54 am

I've had decent luck with PUGs. I find, though, that after one wipe everyone just gives up. Or they use the same strat that got us wiped in the first place.

I'm lvling my healer and I am finding PUGs more annoying each day. I mean, I get a mage that dies every pull cause he doesn't understand threat and aggro. Also when dps players yell at me to heal them, when I'm low on mana and the tank needs heals. Sigh, stupid people. Thankfully I've met a lot of people who aren't retarded when it comes to playing the game.

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Re: Must. Kill. PUG.

Post by spikegirl7 » Thu Aug 21, 2008 2:29 am

This was an anomoly of the PUGs I've run recently.

Most have suffered from poor or insufficient DPS. I got in one for Mana Tombs the other day and I was sent to tank. I am a fury warrior, I don't tank well. But I said ok, there aren't many tanks out there. They then get two priests to do DPS, and a hunter. This is insufficient DPS. Get another tank and let me DPS and it will be SO much easier.
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Re: Must. Kill. PUG.

Post by StruckingFuggle » Thu Aug 21, 2008 2:34 am

Or better yet, gear for prot and spec prot. :P In a tank drought Fury warriors shouldn't exist. Spec Prot and you can probably pick and choose people for a pug, if there's insufficient tanks. :p

Also, wtf. :o ... Shadow Priest + Hunter = YAY DAMAGE, but two (I'm ASSUMING Shadow) priests? Wtf? Are you short on damage, too? o.O

But yeah, Fury Warriors shouldn't tank, and you'll probably run into dps problems when the dps needs to watch their damage to avoid pulling aggro off, too ... wtf was your group thinking?

(unless you're overgeared, like the time my pet tanked SP...)

And if you're often having insufficient DPS, does that mean most people aren't playing dps, too? ... zhu, you're so stuffed with healers you're short on tanks AND dps? o.O ... or, what? That's weird.



(yay, though! When Lich King drops, I think everyone's gonna be FLUSH with tanks when so many people drop their mains for Death Knights. :) )
"He who lives by the sword dies by my arrow."

"In your histories, there are continual justifications for all manner of hellish actions. Claims of nobility and heritage and honor to cover up every bit of genocide, assassination, and massacre. At least the Horde is honest in their naked lust for power."

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Re: Must. Kill. PUG.

Post by Arres » Thu Aug 21, 2008 6:41 pm

StruckingFuggle wrote:(yay, though! When Lich King drops, I think everyone's gonna be FLUSH with tanks when so many people drop their mains for Death Knights. :) )
ghuuuuh. You'll change your tune when people discover tanking means paying attention to EVERY fight the WHOLE time. There will be so many DPS DK's it won't be funny. That being said, they are making a signifigant effort to "balance" the tanking classes. The hope is that when looking for a tank you'll take a warrior/paladin/drood/DK, without signifigant preference. (BOOO!!!! D'=)

Also, the way the blues are talking they plan to make it so that all specs of Warrior can generate sufficient threat to tank, but Prot will shine in mitigation. Thus making a fury tank a possibility, just not a fury Heroic / Raid tank.
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Re: Must. Kill. PUG.

Post by StruckingFuggle » Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:11 pm

Arres wrote:That being said, they are making a signifigant effort to "balance" the tanking classes. The hope is that when looking for a tank you'll take a warrior/paladin/drood/DK, without signifigant preference. (BOOO!!!! D'=)
Piff ... Until Warriors get something that compares to Blessing (of Kings) or Mark of the Wild + Leader of the Pack, Warriors will still be inferior tanks. :P But it'll be nice if I'll be able to fire of multi-shots and volleys and fire traps with more or less impunity in Lich King without having to rely on a Tankadin.

...though right now I think any server with a marked lack of high-end tanking doesn't need a balancing, I'd take anyone who could tank competently regardless of type if it meant a run. :(



<not entirely serious griping> Darn selfish Furriors and Retardins looking for Heroics... </not entirely serious griping>
"He who lives by the sword dies by my arrow."

"In your histories, there are continual justifications for all manner of hellish actions. Claims of nobility and heritage and honor to cover up every bit of genocide, assassination, and massacre. At least the Horde is honest in their naked lust for power."

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Re: Must. Kill. PUG.

Post by Arres » Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:28 pm

StruckingFuggle wrote:Piff ... Until Warriors get something that compares to Blessing (of Kings) or Mark of the Wild + Leader of the Pack, Warriors will still be inferior tanks.
Are you HIGH? Warriors are, and have been acknowledged as the superior tanking class. Granted we have trouble holding a million little mobs, but our mitigation and threat generation on the whole are rarely paralleled by the other "tanks". Failcasters and lolbears are not tanks. They just THINK they are, and somehow Blizz has gotten confused.
StruckingFuggle wrote::P But it'll be nice if I'll be able to fire of multi-shots and volleys and fire traps with more or less impunity in Lich King without having to rely on a Tankadin.
Ah. I see the problem. You don't have any clue how to manage agro, and think "Always" is a good time for AoE. I let your type die on purpose.
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