Election

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Deacon
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Re: Election

Post by Deacon » Fri Nov 06, 2020 2:28 pm

nosystemd wrote: Fri Nov 06, 2020 10:10 amthe next person is welcomed with open arms as if they're a saviour and not a horror.
Yep. If Biden comes out of this having been a halfway decent president, it will most likely be because the bar was simply set so low by his predecessor. And panicked Republicans need not get twisted out of shape, as we have a diehard obstructionist senate whose majority leader has a case of adult onset case of Oppositional Defiant Disorder.
It's really not unfair to paint them as such with they take money from the same really-utterly-terrible corporations.
One of the many immensely aggravating aspects of the ouroboros of stupidity that is the Trump loyalist crowd (I still think Cult 45 is an appropriate epithet) is that all the things they supposedly loved about Trump are all hogwash. Like that he’s self funded or that he says what he means or that he doesn’t feed us bullshit, etc. He’s not at all self funded, giving Biden a run for his dark money. They’ve spent 5 years telling us he actually meant when he said something. He’s fed us all heavy doses of distilled bullshit this whole time. Presuming they’re not just complete idiots with zero perspective and entirely untethered from reality, my only conclusion is that they like him not for those things but for the other things: the middle finger poking the eye of the Democrats, the obnoxious attitude and Real Housewives theatrics, the undermining and occasional outright destruction of our institutions, the bald faced racism, and the total disdain for anything that looks or feels like a rule, from the norms of governance to the law itself.

the RNC and DNC are not about democracy-- they're about winning, regardless of what voters want.
In there somewhere is a kernel of idealism and belief that their way is right, but it absolute takes a back seat to this game of zero-sum tribalism that really is poisonous.
Colourful imagery aside
But it was great imagery ;)
They won't matter (not in any practical way) though, until America gets tired of being jerked around like this. As long as their side wins, most people are content enough for 4 more years. Then we do it again. And make no mistake, a few things have improved.
Fully agreed, but it’s going to take more than getting tired of it. It’s going to take a massive, historic groundswell of total unity that’s unlikely to ever happen. We’re talking prohibition level unity, here. The very structure of our systems inherently shoved us into a two party system, and between the primitive first-past-the-post type election mechanism and the frankly shocking gerrymandering, we have a system where the politicians pick their constituents rather than the other way around. That already means the politicians will not let that power slip from their grasp willingly, requiring a truly massive thunderclap to correct, and the rank tribalism we’ve fostered where the enemy is actually our neighbors where giving even an inch is terrifying means the likelihood of actually getting together to reboot democracy is essentially rebooting America itself, and it’s a bleak prospect.
The follies which a man regrets the most in his life are those which he didn't commit when he had the opportunity. - Helen Rowland, A Guide to Men, 1922

nosystemd
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Re: Election

Post by nosystemd » Fri Nov 06, 2020 2:48 pm

Deacon wrote: Fri Nov 06, 2020 2:28 pm One of the many immensely aggravating aspects of the ouroboros of stupidity that is the Trump loyalist crowd (I still think Cult 45 is an appropriate epithet) is that all the things they supposedly loved about Trump are all hogwash.
Agreed, though I'm afraid this is a common theme throughout politics now. Just like the Bible thumpers (Not unlike Mae I've lived in many parts of the States, including the truly God-fearing ones, I'm agnostic myself though religion doesn't bother me-- hypocrites do) can always quote the parts that make them right, the major parties only seem to care about the parts of the Constitution that the other party violates. What's worse is that by far, the bulk of the worst violations are enthusiastically bipartisan.

Given that without it, the parties would not really exist (they certainly wouldn't get elected) I find this cynical, to put it nicely. I mean you have all this struggle to "fight" for something that nobody actually believes in-- I think that's the definition of a charade, at best it's a sport, though as I said I think Ron Wyden really means it (exceptions to everything, don't you know). I like to throw that out because hey, credit where credit is due. Whenever I'm complaining about a bad move, he seems to be doing the opposite-- it's like he didn't get the memo. In a democracy though (even a real one) it's safe to have one person who does the right thing, because there's always someone to cancel out his vote.

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Rorschach
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Re: Election

Post by Rorschach » Sat Nov 07, 2020 4:57 pm

Well thank fuck for that.
To Let

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raptor9k
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Re: Election

Post by raptor9k » Sat Nov 07, 2020 8:17 pm

Sadly, I will withhold my celebration until they cart his orange ass out of the White House. Still plenty of potential bullshit to be pulled in the next few months.

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Re: Election

Post by nosystemd » Sat Nov 07, 2020 8:59 pm

raptor9k wrote: Sat Nov 07, 2020 8:17 pm Sadly, I will withhold my celebration until they cart his orange ass out of the White House. Still plenty of potential bullshit to be pulled in the next few months.
Years. But I don't think your specific concerns are unmerited. We can hope you're wrong.

On the bright side, Trump will probably find it worth his while to tend to the other problems he has now. He has a fortune to tend to, and problems not directly related to leaving his current residence that may exceed a great deal of it in value. Trying to cause more trouble may not even hold his attention-- and while his allies may exist, they are few.

Consider the tea party candidates. Where are they now?

The party will tend to its pawns. I'm sure they're unhappy. They're also easily distracted. This doesn't mean I would ignore your concerns, but assuming there is some hope there, it probably looks a bit like that. There is plenty to be pessimistic about, either way.

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Rorschach
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Re: Election

Post by Rorschach » Sat Nov 07, 2020 10:21 pm

Yeah, there are concerns. But they can wait until tomorrow. The thing is - and this can’t be forgotten - Trump could have won.

Tonight’s for celebrating.
To Let

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τ > π
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Re: Election

Post by τ > π » Sat Nov 07, 2020 11:54 pm

Trump did win. Last time. He abused the presidency. Before Trump, Obama won. He abused it, too. Before Obama, Bush Jr won. He abused it, too. After Trump, Biden won. ...

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Re: Election

Post by nosystemd » Sun Nov 08, 2020 12:32 am

τ > π wrote: Sat Nov 07, 2020 11:54 pm Trump did win. Last time. He abused the presidency. Before Trump, Obama won. He abused it, too. Before Obama, Bush Jr won. He abused it, too. After Trump, Biden won. ...
I may suck at math, though recursion and especially loops are not entirely foreign.

It is nothing to do with Trump (good riddance) and not everything to do with Biden when I say I honestly think this marks the end of the USA.

I'll entertain arguments for it happening sooner, though I believe the first president was George Washington and Donald Trump was the last. Biden is president too (or will be, as the president elect) but the USA no longer exists. That was it-- 244 years, a very good run.

But it could have gone longer, and that's exactly why I won't be celebrating tonight. The USA was not a fascist country. I think it's fair to say Trump was a fascist, but a fascist with limited support for a very limited time.

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NorthernComfort
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Re: Election

Post by NorthernComfort » Sun Nov 08, 2020 3:14 am

Impossible to overstate the level of PARTY TIME that was felt in Brooklyn today, and seemingly many other major cities. Like a spell was lifted!
"I guess I have a gift for expressing pedestrian tastes. In a way, it's kind of depressing." -Bill Watterson

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Seir
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Re: Election

Post by Seir » Sun Nov 08, 2020 3:59 am

I can't think of a better ending to Trump's campaign and administration.

Yo Mav, I'm real happy for you and Imma let you finish but Hirschoff had the best sig trends of all time.

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Deacon
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Re: Election

Post by Deacon » Sun Nov 08, 2020 4:44 am

Seir wrote: Sun Nov 08, 2020 3:59 am I can't think of a better ending to Trump's campaign and administration.

Seems about right.
The follies which a man regrets the most in his life are those which he didn't commit when he had the opportunity. - Helen Rowland, A Guide to Men, 1922

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τ > π
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Re: Election

Post by τ > π » Sun Nov 08, 2020 1:19 pm

The pattern is that presidents can abuse the presidency. Blame the presidency. It lets presidents abuse.
We were fascist during WWII. Especially our military. Zealous. Thinking we're right.

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Re: Election

Post by nosystemd » Sun Nov 08, 2020 3:18 pm

τ > π wrote: Sun Nov 08, 2020 1:19 pm The pattern is that presidents can abuse the presidency. Blame the presidency. It lets presidents abuse.
We were fascist during WWII. Especially our military. Zealous. Thinking we're right.
While I wholeheartedly agree, and am guilty of doing the same, I can't imagine they're going to let us continually change the course of the thread about it. Even if it isn't deliberate.

The election is over. I can't tell you what to do, and I'm not even sure this is "advice" (that would assume I know what to do here) but perhaps we should find or make our own thread about it. Unless everybody here is eager to talk about why there's no cause for celebration-- in the middle of their celebration, I mean. Do what you think is best, of course.

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Deacon
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Re: Election

Post by Deacon » Mon Nov 09, 2020 3:20 pm

τ > π wrote: Sun Nov 08, 2020 1:19 pmWe were fascist during WWII.
What do you mean?
The follies which a man regrets the most in his life are those which he didn't commit when he had the opportunity. - Helen Rowland, A Guide to Men, 1922

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NorthernComfort
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Re: Election

Post by NorthernComfort » Mon Nov 09, 2020 4:11 pm

Few words have been completely neutered like fascist. My personal interpretation of the word is based on Evola's writings who I'd consider a pretty good source for understanding fascism. Nowadays it could mean pretty much anything.
"I guess I have a gift for expressing pedestrian tastes. In a way, it's kind of depressing." -Bill Watterson

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