Political Correctness and Other Imaginary Menaces

[The Cid]

I can't believe I spent literally over an hour of my life writing a 7,000-word reply in which I tried my hardest to be respectful and consider your views, and find the agreements and disagreements, in a vain hope of finding amicable resolution and putting the matter to rest.

Good. I don't believe you actually did consider my views in a fair manner, so I'm glad you can't believe something that never happened.

Seriously, I put fucking time into it.

And I've put days into this thread. How do you think I feel? Combined days, and I honestly feel at this point that not a word of this has been considered. It's one thing to disagree with me, but telling me my point is flat out invalid and shouldn't be considered, which is what this thread does amount to for me, that's painful.

I am sorry for being rude, and I am sorry for some sarcastic remarks, but the VAST MAJORITY of the words spilled in this thread were seriously intended and written in good faith.

I don't know if you think I'm trying to just get you to go away with my take on how you're coming across. I assure you I feel the way I said. Word. For. Word. I feel I've been ignored, treated as an idiot, had a whole Hell of a lot of words put into my mouth, been mocked, and been written off. I feel like you came into this thread with only the goal of telling me how wrong I am. I've tried to present my point to you. I honestly don't feel like you've done anything to address it in a serious manner.

Do you honestly believe that?

I believe you came into this with only one purpose: To tell me what a wrongheaded asshole I am.

I honestly believe that you take your own experience as valid but not mine.

I honestly believe you were never willing to consider my point.

I honestly believe you started mocking me about half this thread ago with your stupid damn links. Which I keep calling akin to saying all of Florida is "Florida Man" but responding to that would involve acting as though I have a point.

Oh, and when you said this it was all I needed to know:

I try to assume good intention and you make it DAMN hard at this point.

IF YOU DON'T THINK I'M BEING HONEST WITH YOU, WHAT THE HELL DO YOU THINK I'M DOING? Don't dance around an accusation, come out and say it. I wouldn't be any more disrespected by that than I have been by your tone for the course of several months.

You think YOUR time has been wasted? I started a thread nobody's taken the time to consider but continues to last. I feel like "you're arguing wrong" is a bully tactic by the way. It tends to be along the lines of "I won't dignify this with a response," which is by nature insulting.

And for the last six pages of this thread you've underlined it. What the Hell are you still here for if not to beat me over the head with it?

[NorthernComfort]

See ya, Cid. I tried, sorry, it wasn't good enough.

[The Cid]

You absolutely did not try. Unless your intention in this thread was to bully me into submission. You tried DAMN HARD at that.

When you were "considering my point" did you say "durr" a lot?

[NorthernComfort]

I did try, and that's why this is so depressing.

Oh, you edited in more self pity stuff.

I tried to have a discussion in good faith.

You adamantly don't believe I did.

So why am I still here?

Such disrespect.

[The Cid]

You never did. Not for an instant.

You mocked me and you ignored me. The points you addressed were the ones convenient to your argument.

Why are you still here? To bully me into submission would be my guess.

[NorthernComfort]

I literally went through several LONG posts and replied to every single fucking word. Thousands of words.

And apparently I did it all to troll you and be mean to you? OK...

I'm here for an apology at this point.

[The Cid]

I'm not apologizing for not seeing something you demand I admit I've seen when I haven't.

And I owe you no apologies. You treated me like an asshole for an entire thread and now I have to apologize? Kiss my ass.

[NorthernComfort]

Jesus, look at our conversation today -- I'm the asshole here? OK...

seriously this is fucking depressing.

[The Cid]

Jesus, look at our conversation today

I did. And by the way stop dancing around accusations. You want to tell me what you think I'm doing go ahead, but I assure you I genuinely feel this way.

I'm not saying this to piss you off. I honestly feel this way, man. And you want to play it for points? Go the fuck ahead.

[NorthernComfort]

nobody is getting any points in this thread man.

this is a catastrophic devastating loss for both of us and anybody stupid enough to have followed along this far.

[The Cid]

Again, the other day I was unwell.

While we're declaring our intentions I'm continuing to post here until you get it. You don't have to agree with me. You do have to acknowledge that my points aren't just trolling you. They're real. You might not see the world that way, but honestly. And please, if you're going to listen to anything I have to say, please. I do see the world this way. I do. Not for trolling, not because I've been brainwashed, but because I do see things this way.

Yes, this got heated. What do you think I'm saying all this stuff for if you don't believe I really feel this way?

If we're really still here because you want an apology, I honestly don't feel the need. And how ironic that this thread keeps boiling down to a shouting match about how we feel, but hey. I presented my views on the matter. I don't feel they've been fairly addressed, and certainly not the views that I find particularly important to this thread. But at this point we're not going to pivot and suddenly have a desire to discuss this with one another in a way that's different than we've been doing.

Clearly we both have wildly different opinions on how much we're listening to one another, and certainly we've mischaracterized each other's arguments. But more to the point, I'm not sure there was ever a "resolution" here, NC. I get the feeling people don't want me to walk away from this thread without considering political correctness a major problem America needs to destroy. Well, if I'm taking your links and comparing them to "Florida Man" that's simply not happening. And it seems that not only are people not going to agree with me, but I get the impression you might actually think I'm lying to you.

Of course we're insulted. The only "resolution" about ten pages ago was acknowledging the difference in world view, acknowledging the truth is likely somewhere in the middle of my constant contention that this is being blown out of proportion for the political gain of people who shudder at the word "diversity" and your response that this is a serious problem that is one of the primary reasons for this president being elected.

Once that stopped happening this became a fight. And if people are going to fight with me, I'm willing to fight back. It isn't pretty and it isn't productive, but "productivity" in these terms is a nebulous term as no conclusion to these threads will do more than give the few people here something to think about.

This clearly didn't. If people did think about my points they certainly didn't do it in the same way I do. I've been given a lot of links and a lot of words, but honestly I don't agree with the conclusions.

If that's really cause for fighting, then I guess we could go another bunch of rounds until someone else pops in and makes a joking comment about how counterproductive that is.

Here's something that's real: The other day when I said I felt sick at the end of this, I wasn't kidding. I don't feel particularly well right now, either. I don't like that I fight back when I feel someone's trying to get me on my heels for reasons I don't think I deserve. It's not like there was going to be a resolution.

But don't for a second think I'm making any of this up. I may not have a common worldview, but time was I thought that would make some of my thoughts on things worth considering.

[NorthernComfort]

I see you, I hear you, I read you loud and clear. I just disagree with your conclusions. I can argue about this topic until the cows come home.

But what I can't really put up with are the accusations that I am arguing in bad faith, or don't respect you or your views, or I'm just calling you an idiot, and -- this is a very frequent accusation now -- that I am just lying to you.

That's not true, and it's really low especially given how much time we've both put into this.

So I'm done here. I don't actually expect or care about an apology.

[The Cid]

That's fine, but I would finish by pointing out that I feel the same way about you that you do about me at this point.

But what I can't really put up with are the accusations that I am arguing in bad faith, or don't respect you or your views, or I'm just calling you an idiot, and -- this is a very frequent accusation now -- that I am just lying to you.

I don't like having those things implied of me either and I feel they have been.

[NorthernComfort]

I am sorry if you felt and still feel that way- it's not how I try to go about debating, especially with people who I respect.

[Deacon]

Anyone up for a Social Justice retreat?

http://dce.oregonstate.edu/retreat