2018-10-15 Show Ranking

Talk about today's strip, or anything about the comic in general. You can also talk about any of the characters... but don't expect a response. They're FICTIONAL, you guys... sheesh. :)
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2018-10-15 Show Ranking

Post by terminal2k » Wed Oct 24, 2018 2:13 am

https://reallifecomics.com/comic.php?co ... er-15-2018

So I'm glad this came out just after 2018-10-05 where liz says greg has horrible taste in things, because nobody should like star trek discovery. everyone knows the orville is the closest thing to a new star trek we have

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Re: 2018-10-15 Show Ranking

Post by Greg Dean » Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:43 am

OK, so here's the thing: You're fucking WRONG. Like, super duper wrong, with a cherry on top.

Discovery might not be everyone's cup of tea, but the reasons people throw out for not liking it are USUALLY bullshit, and are often based on just watching the first, free, episode. So let me drop some knowledge on you.

1) If you fucking say BUT THE KLINGONS, then I may as well just ban you right now, because that's a stupid, stupid thing to bitch about. Yeah, they were bald - but they said from the get-go that this was largely due to religious fervor in deference to Kah'less. It's not a species-wide thing. There are 12 (24?) different houses at the outset, and unification is going to change a LOT. L'rell has already been shown with hair for S2, and she looks LIKE A FUCKING KLINGON. And if you want to tell me we've never seen bald Klingons before, then please watch Star Trek Vi and adore the hairless head of Christopher Plummer as General Chang.

2) What is it about the weekly reset button that everyone craves so much? THIS IS THE GOLDEN ERA OF TELEVISION. Shows can do fully serialized shit without having to worry about people jumping in in the middle, so it allows for long-form storytelling - AND somehow Discovery manages to do this while still giving each episode its own special plot. That's pretty badass.

3) I swear to god if you say it's "too dark and gritty", then I'm going to tell you you didn't actually WATCH it. Because it is ANYTHING but dark and gritty. It deals with some dark and gritty subject matter during the first season, sure, but it's not subject matter other Star Trek series haven't done. (THREE other Star Trek series', to be exact) And they did so in a TREMENDOUSLY canon-respecting way that honestly blows my damned mind.

4) Are you upset that it looks new? Because come the fuck ON. It's 2018. It's STUPID to think they should make it look like TOS - and yet, if you watch the trailer for S2, they're introducing elements of TOS design in a really, REALLY awesome way. But seriously - from the sound of the doors down to the bridge atmosphere, to the food bays in the galley... it feels like Trek head-to-toe. And it has a LOT to say about what it means to be Federation, and what it means to be human, that Roddenberry would have been proud of.

As for the Orville... look.The Orville is FINE. It's a big ol' ball of OK. If you want '90s-era schlock, then yeah - go watch The Orville. Because they're not breaking any new ground thematically, and they seem to be unsure of whether it's a comedy or a drama, and it suffers for that. It tries so hard at times to be earnest, and it just feels like Berman-era Trek, but not in a good way. It's had some HILARIOUS moments, to be sure, and I overall like the show just fine, but it doesn't even come CLOSE to being worthy of the Star Trek moniker. Some of the stories actually FEEL like rehashed stories told by other sci-fi shows... like the planet that moved at a weird time scale, and wound up worshipping Commander Grayson as a god. That's LITERALLY been done on Star Trek before. And the episode with the generational ship of people who didn't know they were on a ship? Doctor Who has done this a few times, but most recently in World Enough and Time - and it wasn't ALL THAT dissimilar from the Orville episode.

I'm tired of the Discovery bashing. It's bullshit, and most people who do it haven't even watched the whole first season. It had some BRILLIANT moments. "Lethe" completely explained the strained relationship between Spock and Sarek when we first meet Sarek in TOS. "Magic to Make the Sanest Men Go Mad" was a time loop episode that might be among my favorite Star Trek episodes EVER. And the shit that happens after the mid-season break is BANANAS in the best possible way. it explains a lot of the weirdness of the first half of the season, and brings the crew of the Discovery together beautifully.

Sorry, but this strikes a nerve, and I'm tired enough of dealing with it in the feral wilds of social media. I don't need to see it here.

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Re: 2018-10-15 Show Ranking

Post by FirebirdNC » Wed Oct 24, 2018 1:55 pm

I greatly enjoyed Discovery based purely on what the show was and not what I thought it should be. Also Greg is serious about that shit I would not fuck with him lol.
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Re: 2018-10-15 Show Ranking

Post by teddy » Wed Oct 24, 2018 5:44 pm

daaaaamn yo.

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Re: 2018-10-15 Show Ranking

Post by Greg Dean » Wed Oct 24, 2018 7:42 pm

I go hard.

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Re: 2018-10-15 Show Ranking

Post by Rorschach » Thu Oct 25, 2018 5:20 am

Filth.
To Let

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Re: 2018-10-15 Show Ranking

Post by terminal2k » Fri Oct 26, 2018 1:26 am

The way i see discovery, it's not a bad show, its just not star trek. It's the same with the new movies, if you pretend star trek doesn't exist, both the new movies, and discovery, are ok, but they certainly aren't great.

Keep in mind, I did watch the show back when it came out, so a lot of the show is blurry being over a year ago.

1) To be fair, I don't like how the klingons looked, but there were way bigger issues with them than that.

2) Not 100% sure what this reset button criticism is, but my favourite trek (DS9) had long story arcs too. Having ongoning story arcs whilst still having self contained episodes is a pretty standard thing especially in sci-fi.

3) dark and gritty? not really an issue for me, DS9 had plenty of stuff like that. To say discovery respected canon is basically the opposite of what I would have said though.

4) I'm actually the opposite, I don't want the ships to look like TOS. I can't say I have watched the trailer for S2. I've never been one to watch trailers for any show or movie I intend to watch. I want to see the things when they appear in the show. (when trek movies were coming out back in the day i'd avoid whole sections of the internet from when the first trailers would come out, to when I had seen the movie) with the new trek movies and discovery, I wouldn't go out of my way to do the same (i still won't watch the trailers, but I won't avoid my normal websites)

I'm not writing the show off entirely, I will continue to watch it, and a lot of shows have a 1st season that is the weakest. I didn't like early enterprise, but I enjoyed a lot of the later stuff. Also, it's on netflix here in oz so I'm not paying extra for it. Like I said in my original post, I got a lot more enjoyment from the orville than I did watching discovery. I have to agree with something you said in the comic, tilly is easily the best character on there. burnam however, if they started season 2 with her dying, I wouldn't be mad at all.

Re: orville, I like the fact they don't stick to either drama or comedy specifically. I actually think that makes it a better show than if it did. and the fact you think some of the plots are re-hashed from other places, actually makes it more trek rather than less. also, I didn't say it actually was trek, just that it feels a lot closer to trek then discovery does.

Lethe? I didn't really enjoy that one at all, Magic to Make the Sanest Men Go Mad was a great episode.

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Re: 2018-10-15 Show Ranking

Post by The Cid » Fri Oct 26, 2018 11:37 am

It was cathartic to watch Greg unleash that post. Welcome back.

I don't understand the whole thing where fans of something reserve the right to get all mad about a new iteration of that thing. Two reasons.

1: Oh, you like the old version more? This is the internet, you can very easily go watch TOS or TNG until your heart stops. It is not off of TV forever and most of it still holds up, at least inasmuch as it will be just as you remembered.

2: Someone is paying serious money to make a new Star Trek show. Someone else is paying serious money to make a show that, more or less, serves as a tribute to the idea of Star Trek. A third entity is shelling out stupid money so one of the most well-liked big budget directors in the world can make an entire series of Star Trek movies. If you are a Trekkie, you should be too busy making sure you're not dreaming to complain about a single one of these things.

The same sentiment goes for Star Wars, all comic franchises, and Doctor Who. If you don't like the new stuff you can go watch the classics right this second, easily, and at the very least you have to appreciate that these things people love are so big that people just want to keep them going forever.
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Re: 2018-10-15 Show Ranking

Post by Greg Dean » Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:16 am

terminal2k wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 1:26 am
The way i see discovery, it's not a bad show, its just not star trek.
We'll get back to this one.
terminal2k wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 1:26 am
To say discovery respected canon is basically the opposite of what I would have said though.
Pray, tell me in what way Discovery broke canon. I'll wait. And it has to be unrelated to the visual stylings, because even ENTERPRISE looked more modern than TOS, so let's not go there. Star Trek is my fucking DRUG. Don't try and tell me it violates canon.[/quote]
terminal2k wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 1:26 am
...the fact you think some of the plots are re-hashed from other places, actually makes it more trek rather than less.
What the fuck does that even mean, though - rehashing old plot ideas is what Trek does? That almost feels like slap in the face. What Trek does, and always HAS done, is hold up a mirror to society and reframe it in another way, and show us what we COULD be. It's a morality play, showing us how humankind can get over the petty bullshit that we're stuck in now, and how we can actually be LEADERS in the galaxy. Re-doing plots that were already done is kind of boring. It's not a GOOD thing. It's a flaw.

But let's go back to Discovery not being Trek. It just doesn't make sense as a statement. You don't GET to decide what is and is not Star Trek. For instance, I'm not really a big fan of Voyager. I like Janeway just fine, and a few of the crew, but largely, the show is boring to me. But it doesn't mean it's NOT Star Trek. I didn't initially like that DS9 took place on a Cardassian space station. That doesn't make it NOT Star Trek. Discovery fits NEATLY into the existing timeline, both canonically and stylistically (there are still some tech things that aren't up to TOS snuff, and it's almost a PERFECT visual continuation of the design ethos of Enterprise.
terminal2k wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 1:26 am
Lethe? I didn't really enjoy that one at all, Magic to Make the Sanest Men Go Mad was a great episode.
I didn't really enjoy Lethe all that much - but it PERFECTLY explained Sarek's reaction to Spock in "Journey to Babel". It made previously established canon STRONGER, and that's pretty awesome.

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Re: 2018-10-15 Show Ranking

Post by raptor9k » Mon Oct 29, 2018 3:00 pm

I don't understand why anyone feels the need to tell other people what they should and should not enjoy. If you like a thing, say I like this thing and provide your reasoning why. If you don't like a thing and feel the need to tell others, do the same. Criticizing someone's taste because they enjoy a thing you don't is ignorant.

As a kid, I never cared for Star Trek because most of what I've been exposed to (random Original/TNG/DS9 reruns) was either badly acted or incredibly slow paced. I don't really get into the reflective type shows because I get tired of being reminded how fucked up our society is/has been. I watch television/read books as an escape from reality. I mostly enjoyed the new movies because there was enough movement there to keep my dwindling attention span amused, though, they're not something I would consider anything greater than a decent action flick. I might actually enjoy the older series if I watched them now but who has time for that.
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Re: 2018-10-15 Show Ranking

Post by amlthrawn » Mon Oct 29, 2018 3:26 pm

raptor9k wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 3:00 pm
I don't understand why anyone feels the need to tell other people what they should and should not enjoy.
A lot of these arguments presuppose one's opinion as objective fact. Whether Discovery, La Croix water, or lutevisk is "good" is purely subjective. I am seeing a lot more of this as of late.
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Re: 2018-10-15 Show Ranking

Post by The Cid » Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:34 am

There's also a weird, I guess you'd call it pride people have in their opinions now, like we're all tastemakers and seasoned critics.

Something's warped about all of it. I understand not enjoying something, but to believe people who do enjoy it shouldn't just seems like the kind of thing that makes people say old timey phrases like the world's going to Hell in a handbasket.
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Re: 2018-10-15 Show Ranking

Post by amlthrawn » Thu Nov 01, 2018 2:58 pm

The Cid wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:34 am
just seems like the kind of thing that makes people say old timey phrases like the world's going to Hell in a handbasket.
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- We were never being boring. We had too much time to find for ourselves.

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Re: 2018-10-15 Show Ranking

Post by FirebirdNC » Thu Nov 01, 2018 3:25 pm

Get off my Lawn!
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Re: 2018-10-15 Show Ranking

Post by terminal2k » Fri Nov 02, 2018 3:40 am

Greg Dean wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:16 am
Pray, tell me in what way Discovery broke canon.
As I said before, It has been a long time since I watched the show, but being set in the past and some things never being mentioned again are quite strange, like the spore drive, or spock having an adopted sister that he grew up with. Hell they even seem to have replicators even though its been mentioned in other treks that these didn't exist in kirks time, let alone before it.
Greg Dean wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:16 am
rehashing old plot ideas is what Trek does? That almost feels like slap in the face. What Trek does, and always HAS done, is hold up a mirror to society and reframe it in another way, and show us what we COULD be. It's a morality play, showing us how humankind can get over the petty bullshit that we're stuck in now, and how we can actually be LEADERS in the galaxy. Re-doing plots that were already done is kind of boring. It's not a GOOD thing. It's a flaw.
I didn't say it was a good thing, but rehashing is certainly something that has happened in trek a lot previously. Regarding it being a way to show humankind being anything, most of discovery was people being petty and doing dumb shit.
Greg Dean wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:16 am
But let's go back to Discovery not being Trek. It just doesn't make sense as a statement. You don't GET to decide what is and is not Star Trek. For instance, I'm not really a big fan of Voyager. I like Janeway just fine, and a few of the crew, but largely, the show is boring to me. But it doesn't mean it's NOT Star Trek. I didn't initially like that DS9 took place on a Cardassian space station. That doesn't make it NOT Star Trek. Discovery fits NEATLY into the existing timeline, both canonically and stylistically (there are still some tech things that aren't up to TOS snuff, and it's almost a PERFECT visual continuation of the design ethos of Enterprise.
If you watched ds9 or voyager or enterprise, you didn't know it was trek, and the visuals weren't obviously trek, you'd still know it was trek. watching discovery is like watching the new movies, it feels more like someone has ripped off the trek universe and made a completely different show in it that isn't trek.
Greg Dean wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:16 am
I didn't really enjoy Lethe all that much - but it PERFECTLY explained Sarek's reaction to Spock in "Journey to Babel". It made previously established canon STRONGER, and that's pretty awesome.
Making canon stronger by ignoring cannon doesn't make sense. If burnham played this big a part in not only spock/sareks family, but in some seriously big parts of federation history, why is she never heard of again?
The Cid wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:34 am
I understand not enjoying something, but to believe people who do enjoy it shouldn't just seems like the kind of thing that makes people say old timey phrases like the world's going to Hell in a handbasket.
There are some things that it is just wrong to enjoy, like the bachelor, or the kardashians. People who like those things have literal mental issues.

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