9/5/12 Voyager

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Jirin
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9/5/12 Voyager

Post by Jirin » Wed Sep 05, 2012 1:27 pm

Yeah, I agree. Voyager had a pretty weak overall vision but it had a lot of really strong (And a lot of horrible) individual episodes and a pretty strong overall cast.

Besides some of the worst individual episodes in Trek (Threshold, Fair Haven, etc), the major problem with Voyager was the refusal of continuity. They were stranded in the delta quadrant but never seemed to take any damage to the ship that lasted more than one episode or ever run low on resources after the great 'Coffee nebula' incident in one of the first few episodes. Also there were way too many times when they had a golden opportunity to get home and didn't take it because they're so durn noble (OMG we have to stop the two farengi from that one episode of TNG!) And they overused time travel and the holodeck to the point they had no impact.

But, compared to Enterprise, the show was pure brilliance, and it had enough very good episodes for me to call it a good show.

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Re: 9/5/12 Voyager

Post by Excal » Thu Sep 06, 2012 6:32 am

Oh man. Threshold put me off of Voyager for years. The earlier series all had bad episodes. There was even the odd "really stupid" episode, (I'm looking at YOU, Sub Rosa...) but the horrendous "evolution" angle of Threshold killed my interest in the show at the time dead.

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Re: 9/5/12 Voyager

Post by zuke » Thu Sep 06, 2012 4:09 pm

I want to say they actually bring up the time travel issue in one episode. The captain of the time ship from the future brings up to Janeway how much he hates Voyager. It seems every other report he gets, it's about that damn ship again.
It just goes to show that you shouldn't kneel down, grab the third rail with both hands, and piss on it from three feet away.

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Re: 9/5/12 Voyager

Post by Jaybo » Fri Sep 07, 2012 8:45 am

I've done what he is doing, and watched every episode of every Star Trek (except TOS) and ended up firmly believing DS9>all, even TNG.
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Re: 9/5/12 Voyager

Post by Jirin » Fri Sep 07, 2012 1:24 pm

Between TNG and DS9 I could go either way. I'm more inclined to watch DS9 now because it ideologically aged better and is an obvious trailblazer for Battlestar Galactica, but I power-watched TNG tapes all through college.

I might say, TNG has the few greatest individual episodes and greatest characters, but DS9 has the greatest overall vision. Nothing any other Trek did matched episodes like Chain of Command, Tapestry, Gambit, the first two Borg episodes, etc.

Speaking of the Borg, that reminds me of another of my major gripes with Voyager. They nerfed the Borg just to make it possible for Voyager to survive them.

I've seen all of TNG, DS9 and Voyager, maybe 50% of TOS episodes, and the first two seasons + first episode of third season of Enterprise. (Yeah, it took me that long to finally give up on it.)

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Re: 9/5/12 Voyager

Post by Jaybo » Sat Sep 08, 2012 7:33 am

Yeah, exactly. DS9 seems to be the superior product when you watch all of them. It's also hard to ignore how awesome Garak was.
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Re: 9/5/12 Voyager

Post by skiltao » Sat Sep 15, 2012 1:50 am

I did this a few years ago, after finally seeing all of the original series and movies. The animated series (I didn't even know there was an animated series) was fun, basically half an OST ep each. TNG wasn't as good as I remembered. Voyager was better than I remembered. DS9 probably was the best, though I'm reluctant to say so because of the whole DS9/B5 thing. 25th Anniversary was okay, probably on par with the OST; Judgment Rites was kind of painful. (Galaxy Quest might also be worth adding to the queue.)

Enterprise is definitely my favorite. Maybe it wouldn't be if I'd seen it while it was still airing on TV; it's not the "best" by any measure. But the quest to watch all of Star Trek was the first time I'd watched any of it and, the thing is, it's less a Star Trek show than it is a show *about* Star Trek. Its first season walks through TOS exploration and contact; second does TNG-style diplomacy; third is DS9 metaplot; fourth is Voyager metaplot; and most of its faults are self-aware callbacks to the oddities of those earlier shows. The franchise is so self-referential, and each series already recycles so many of the same elements, that the way Enterprise (literally? figuratively? both?) builds itself around recycling earlier series is just so incredibly meta that it tickles me.

Best part of watching all Star Trek ever is the slow and dawning realization that Futurama is basically Star Trek. Worst thing is that I can't stand to rewatch Star Trek eps any more.

Finally gotten around to watching Gene Roddenberry's Andromeda. Definitely Star Trek a la Kevin Sorbo, but heavy enough on Sorbo and light enough on Roddenberry that it probably doesn't need to be in the queue. (The cast are a clear model for Firefly's main cast, and Beka was transplanted whole into nuBSG, but that's a whole other thing.)

For kicks:
-Star Trek story generator
-Star Trek Captain's Summit

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Re: 9/5/12 Voyager

Post by Jirin » Fri Oct 05, 2012 1:17 pm

Wow. You sir, are the first person I've ever met who likes Enterprise.

They spent the first season in decontamination saunas because, you know, if you don't sit half naked in a steamy room for a few hours you might infect the crew. Then Trip got headaches and Phlox prescribed Vulcan Erotic Headache Messages, which cured his headaches and then some. The captain's dog peed on a tree, then it turns out vulcan mind melds are actually homosexual sex, and T'Pol goes to contract a mmtd that way which turns out to have terrible social stigma on Vulcan because, you know, Star Trek's supposed to be socially relevant n stuff. Then they discovered how to cure Borg assimilation in five minutes, and then just plum forgot.

I got to season 7 of DS9 in my current run. I forgot how much the quality of writing takes a nosedive in that season. What is up with this Vic Fontaine crap? Why are all these people so interested in a holographic recreation of a 1960s crooner, including the aliens, and why is he in every other freaking episode?

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Re: 9/5/12 Voyager

Post by ijuin » Sat Oct 06, 2012 4:01 am

To nitpick a little, the method that Phlox used to cure himself of assimilation was explicitly stated to be lethal to any species that was less tolerant of Omicorn radiation than his species was, which is why it could not be used on Humans.

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Re: 9/5/12 Voyager

Post by Jaybo » Sat Oct 06, 2012 8:27 am

It only makes sense that season 7 should be worse as the war was over and we got Ezri, even though I was starting to like her a bit as it went on.
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Re: 9/5/12 Voyager

Post by Jirin » Sat Oct 06, 2012 8:08 pm

Yeah, Ezri wasn't nearly as good as Jadzia, but she wasn't the reason the writing went downhill. There's no In The Pale Moonlight or Starship Down. There's gimmicky ones like the 10,000 Vic Fontaine episodes or the baseball episode. It seems they fell back on the kind of gimmickry that made for the less good TNG episodes.

This is one of the most embarrassing moments in Star Trek history to me:
"What do you see?"
"Pictures, with smiling faces."
"So somebody hates emotion. The killer must be a vulcan!"

Here's my rating of various Star Trek seasons:

TOS:
Season 1: A-
Season 2: B-
Season 3: (Not seen except for a few episodes which were bad)

TNG:
Season 1: D
Season 2: C
Season 3*: A
Season 4: A
Season 5: A
Season 6: A
Season 7: B-

DS9:
Season 1: B
Season 2: B
Season 3*: A-
Season 4: A
Season 5: A
Season 6: A+
Season 7: C-

Voyager:
All Seasons: C+/B-

Enterprise:
Seasons 1-2: F is too generous
Seasons 3-4: Not seen except for the first few episodes of season 3

*The season Ron Moore joined the writing staff: No coincidence

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9/5/12 Voyager

Post by Deacon » Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:43 pm

Trying to slowly make my way through TNG so I can move on to others. Sometimes it's hard, during the first season...
The follies which a man regrets the most in his life are those which he didn't commit when he had the opportunity. - Helen Rowland, A Guide to Men, 1922

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Re: 9/5/12 Voyager

Post by Jaybo » Sun Oct 07, 2012 11:31 am

Vic Fontaine didn't destroy an entire season, but giving TOS high marks like that must be a joke - I can't even make myself watch them, which is why I've seen everything but TOS.
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Re: 9/5/12 Voyager

Post by TonyEvil » Sun Oct 07, 2012 11:02 pm

For anyone interested, I ran across this torrent which is very large as torrent files go. I have had it running in uTorrent for over 6 weeks, now, and it is 77.4% complete. Also includes all the bonus material from the various DVDs it was made from, and all the movies. It does not include the new movies from the New Voyages fan-fiction site here http://www.startreknewvoyages.com/

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Re: 9/5/12 Voyager

Post by ijuin » Tue Oct 09, 2012 2:47 am

Jaybo wrote:Vic Fontaine didn't destroy an entire season, but giving TOS high marks like that must be a joke - I can't even make myself watch them, which is why I've seen everything but TOS.
The craziest thing I have ever heard about TOS is that NBC hated it because they considered it far TOO serious and intellectual for mainstream audiences. By current standards, it's not nearly serious and intellectual ENOUGH to be viable.

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