Election

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Rorschach
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Election

Post by Rorschach » Tue Nov 03, 2020 11:06 am

I mean, yeah, obviously I could watch various news outlets and critically form my own opinions. But why have a dog and bark yourself? You guys are way more potilical than I am. What's happening?
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nosystemd
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Re: Election

Post by nosystemd » Tue Nov 03, 2020 1:06 pm

Rorschach wrote: Tue Nov 03, 2020 11:06 am I mean, yeah, obviously I could watch various news outlets and critically form my own opinions. But why have a dog and bark yourself? You guys are way more potilical than I am. What's happening?
Four more years of the most fascist leader in American history, or, four more years of a guy who wrote the most fascist law in (at least) half a century of American history. Win-win?

Broadly speaking, I can rattle off the names of several world leaders and countries (Brazil, Hungary, Turkey, adding more names will only increase the unhappiness of the occasion) that have gone fascist over the past few years. But America is exceptional-- After 4 years of open fascism, of course it will change.

None of which denies how awful the past few years are, or how awful the next four years would be if nothing was done.

I agree with the majority that change is needed, I was hoping for something more substantial. But that is not what I'm used to, after 19 years (as of October) watching Eisenhower's worst nightmares come to life. I'm pretty confident Biden will win though, so at least most of the forum (and world?) will be happy.

Trump should have never gotten in in the first place. People are going to try to tell me the advantages of things changing today. I'm aware of them, they're simply very small compared to what is needed.

The electoral college will provide. Sort of. Just don't count on it doing a lot of good. It hasn't, and it won't. Yes, I do have a better idea-- it's not even my own, rather it's the idea of someone who ran for president in 2016. But like anything related to actual due process and democracy, it requires a lot more people to have a better idea.

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NorthernComfort
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Re: Election

Post by NorthernComfort » Tue Nov 03, 2020 2:23 pm

America is being an offered a smörgåsbord of possibilities. Will we choose the narcissistic man with the heart of a spoiled eight year old? Or will we favor the walking wax mannequin? Will we wake up tomorrow and be impossibly bored with politics? Or will we be in the streets setting up the barricades and enlisting in our local militia?

Find out in 24 hours! This smörgåsbord is brought to you by This Is Fine Dot Gif.
"I guess I have a gift for expressing pedestrian tastes. In a way, it's kind of depressing." -Bill Watterson

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raptor9k
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Re: Election

Post by raptor9k » Tue Nov 03, 2020 2:30 pm

I just want to hibernate.

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Rorschach
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Re: Election

Post by Rorschach » Wed Nov 04, 2020 9:29 am

I'm a bit scared.

I'd also like to point out that although it's cold and wet a lot of the time, Scotland is beautiful.
And we welcome all. Come and hang about with me. I'll buy you a pint.
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Deacon
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Re: Election

Post by Deacon » Wed Nov 04, 2020 2:34 pm

I was hoping for a swift and significant enough margin of victory that Trump wouldn’t get a chance to play his games, and all these idiots promising revolution to keep Dear Leader installed in power would just go away.

Unfortunately Trump has already “declared” victory, because nothing matters anymore, and I’m sure we’ll see some interesting stuff play out.
The follies which a man regrets the most in his life are those which he didn't commit when he had the opportunity. - Helen Rowland, A Guide to Men, 1922

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Seir
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Re: Election

Post by Seir » Wed Nov 04, 2020 9:36 pm

Now I'm wondering if Trump will be the first President who has to be forcibly removed from office? If that happens, I wonder how that would be played out? Would the Secret Service assigned to his guard attachment receive orders from their earpieces and suddenly turn on him like Clone Troopers receiving Order 66?
Yo Mav, I'm real happy for you and Imma let you finish but Hirschoff had the best sig trends of all time.

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Seannery
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Re: Election

Post by Seannery » Wed Nov 04, 2020 9:51 pm

One might wonder if they'll award visiting rights.
Seir wrote: Wed Nov 04, 2020 9:36 pm Would the Secret Service assigned to his guard attachment receive orders from their earpieces and suddenly turn on him like Clone Troopers receiving Order 66?
An apt metaphor---of which side of the Force? Was it not President Palpatine ordering 66? against the rest of the government, to become military.
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τ > π wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 2:57 amOnward! To our selves. To the future.

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Seir
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Re: Election

Post by Seir » Thu Nov 05, 2020 3:31 am

Nah, considering that Secret Service has always been a law enforcement agency and only became bodyguards to the President some time after Lincoln.
Yo Mav, I'm real happy for you and Imma let you finish but Hirschoff had the best sig trends of all time.

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Rorschach
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Re: Election

Post by Rorschach » Thu Nov 05, 2020 7:40 am

To Let

nosystemd
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Re: Election

Post by nosystemd » Thu Nov 05, 2020 9:07 am

Rorschach wrote: Thu Nov 05, 2020 7:40 am Richard Marx is savage. Who knew?
When the RIAA tried to sue Jammie Thomas for 1.2 million, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitol_R ... #Aftermath I destroyed my entire CD collection and uploaded a photo of the pieces. I never did replace it.

Richard Marx was the only artist (of the 24 on the list of songs she was sued for) who said the record industry was wrong to do this, he was the one who spoke out against the way they went after Thomas and countless others. He's a pretty awesome guy and I've always admired him after that.

Unfortunately, Americans just elected someone who LOVES the RIAA and is completely in their pocket. Yes, Trump is still worse. But Biden is unacceptable. If the system wasn't broken, the primaries wouldn't exist solely to whittle it down to unacceptable choices.

If the system wasn't broken I might add, Trump would have never made it through the 2016 primaries in the first place, and doing things properly would have saved America from every year of Trump in office, not just a second term. As the lawyer scumbag Richard Gabriel representing the RIAA put it after the 1.2 *million* dollar verdict was reached: "This is what happens when you don't settle." The settlement (for 24 songs on Kazaa) was 10,000 dollars. Thomas didn't have 10,000 dollars, she was a single blue-collar mother with two kids. The RIAA finally got a verdict (after years of appeals) for over $200,000 and Thomas filed bankruptcy-- American tax dollars at work. Long live Richard Marx.

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Deacon
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Re: Election

Post by Deacon » Thu Nov 05, 2020 12:29 pm

nosystemd wrote: Thu Nov 05, 2020 9:07 am doing things properly
Do tell. I’m interested to know more.
The follies which a man regrets the most in his life are those which he didn't commit when he had the opportunity. - Helen Rowland, A Guide to Men, 1922

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τ > π
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Re: Election

Post by τ > π » Thu Nov 05, 2020 4:35 pm

Some ideas:
Impeach the presidency. It's too powerful. Too dangerous.
Add more governments. Let me choose who taxes me.

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Rorschach
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Re: Election

Post by Rorschach » Thu Nov 05, 2020 4:57 pm

Man, this is slow-going. Our elections are like checking the score online later. This is like watching a really long game.
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nosystemd
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Re: Election

Post by nosystemd » Fri Nov 06, 2020 10:10 am

Deacon wrote: Thu Nov 05, 2020 12:29 pm Do tell. I’m interested to know more.
Unfortunately it hinges on enough people realising the system is broken. The only thing that ever clues MOST Reps or Dems into realising that is the other party gets elected. Really doesn't work if the main drive for reform is "I don't like the opposition." Never gets it over (or to) 50%.

Incredibly, this forum has actually discussed the primary mechanism for repairing the existing system with corrupt officials at the helm (I still love Ron Wyden though. All the "Republicans" I like are actually libertarians.) viewtopic.php?t=5378

Parties I wouldn't shed tears about if they got into office: Green, Pirate, Libertarian. I don't lean Green, but I do Like their supporters.

Interfering with elections is (as far as I know) treason, the PATRIOT Act is (as far as I can tell) fascist, and since 1933 there has been growing concern (Smedley Butler, Eisenhower, Project Paperclip) about fascism in the United States.

IMO the 2 Party system is simply double-clutching towards fascism. You get someone mediocre, then the opposition gets someone so awful (Bush Jr, Trump) the next person is welcomed with open arms as if they're a saviour and not a horror.

It's really not unfair to paint them as such with they take money from the same really-utterly-terrible corporations. I have some inside information about election tampering (nothing anybody will care about, I can assure you of that-- it matters to me though) but the thing is, the RNC and DNC are not about democracy-- they're about winning, regardless of what voters want.

That has to change or this is just a pageant we have every four years.

Lawrence Lessig ran in 2016. He gave a really good talk about just how broken everything is called "Rebooting Democracy" at Dartmouth, it's on Youtube.

But the system in place rewards a corrupt Congress, it gives them more incentives than they have to do the right thing, and it perpetuates itself. They won't vote for measures that stop this-- which is where Article V comes into play.

Trump is a hemorrhoid on the chocolate starfish of democracy. What America has forgotten how to do though, is clean its backside after doing its business.

We need a new regimen of democratic hygiene, and instead of letting everything sit and fester in the bowl for decades, America needs to flush afterwards, as well. But removing one hemorrhoid, while a welcome relief, is barely fixing enough. The source of the problems remains.

Colourful imagery aside, there are real technical answers. They won't matter (not in any practical way) though, until America gets tired of being jerked around like this. As long as their side wins, most people are content enough for 4 more years. Then we do it again. And make no mistake, a few things have improved.

Every 4 years, most people drop most of the causes they were most concerned about and focus on one or two. That's brilliant conditioning. Elections lower expectations, and get people to "wait" where before they were fighting.

Mostly LGBT rights have improved, and I'm still angry about what happened to Alan Turing and that was before I was even born. I've got friends who are trans and I'm incredibly happy and excited for Mae as well. It's just that apart from this undeniable progress, most other rights? They continue to erode. LGBT progress is progress, but IMO we are still headed for fascism that just doesn't care what your orientation/identity is. That's different from yesteryear's fascism for sure, but it's not nearly good enough.

We can talk about specifics, but they only make this longer. Biden is bad. Trump is worse. We need major, major reform to stop the primaries from whittling the "real" choices down to Bad and Worse. A tiny little upgrade here and there, and in a century or so... That's not enough. We don't need the crumbs from the table reform that Congress will grant us.

None of the reform we need will come until people are unhappy enough. But no matter how terrible things get, no matter how far we are shoved near the edge of a cliff, they always send a shill to rescue us. It's like good cop, bad cop, but with leaders. Then again, I'm really not saying much that The Who didn't already say in "Won't get fooled again". The beards have all grown longer overnight.

Without major cultural change there will be no reform, and the 6 major media corporations that own 90% of the culture are now 5. Edward Bernays would stand in awe.

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