Political Correctness and Other Imaginary Menaces

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NorthernComfort
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Re: Political Correctness and Other Imaginary Menaces

Post by NorthernComfort » Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:30 pm

I feel the same. I don't have any hard feelings here.

Talking about PC is usually a one-way ticket to shitty town.

So let's get to baseball town or somewhere more interesting at least. There's plenty of prime political meat to cook lately.
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Re: Political Correctness and Other Imaginary Menaces

Post by NorthernComfort » Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:38 pm

So, um, am I still allowed to do "the chop" and sing the song at Braves games? They're my team.

(ducks)
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Re: Political Correctness and Other Imaginary Menaces

Post by The Cid » Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:25 pm

Well I mean there's a school of thought among sports fans that you shouldn't be doing that stuff when the Nationals are eight runs ahead in the fourth, but there's nobody stopping you.
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Re: Political Correctness and Other Imaginary Menaces

Post by NorthernComfort » Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:52 pm

Last year, went to a Braves/Mets games here in NY. Braves got smoked. We were down 6-1 or something and the handful of us Braves fans tried a chant and chop.... we got some hairy eyeballs, but it was mostly just pity at that point.

Maybe this year the Braves won't be totally terrible for like the tenth year straight.
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Re: Political Correctness and Other Imaginary Menaces

Post by Deacon » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:29 am

NorthernComfort wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:30 pm
Talking about PC is usually a one-way ticket to shitty town.
Well that's because neonazis invented the myth, so even though it's irrelevant and has no impact anywhere, it's controversial.
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Re: Political Correctness and Other Imaginary Menaces

Post by The Cid » Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:51 am

Well somebody's not confident in the Rangers.
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Re: Political Correctness and Other Imaginary Menaces

Post by Rorschach » Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:21 pm

That was wonderful. I feel like I watched every sweaty, frantic minute of that and am now enjoying you both lying smoking the obligatory cigarette together.
To Let

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Re: Political Correctness and Other Imaginary Menaces

Post by Deacon » Mon Apr 03, 2017 6:20 pm

Last nights episode of The Simpsons was amusingly on topic, but this from Friday was a real gem: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/gra ... hes-suing/
The follies which a man regrets the most in his life are those which he didn't commit when he had the opportunity. - Helen Rowland, A Guide to Men, 1922

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Re: Political Correctness and Other Imaginary Menaces

Post by The Cid » Tue Apr 04, 2017 8:47 pm

Personally I wouldn't want a government that tells private institutions what they can and can't ask people to do or not do on their property. As that would be a violation of freedom of speech, I'd rather Pierce College do what they wish and people can tell them why they're being idiotic by not giving them their business, or in this case tuition. Any other take on that would go far afield from my beliefs about the scope of government.

In fact I'd suggest that every time a ridiculous, outlier, not-coming-for-your-way-of-life incident like this happens and is nationally reported, it's a sign that the vast majority of us are rejecting such extreme stuff.

But then what do I know, I don't get mad when movies and video games have female protagonists either.
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Re: Political Correctness and Other Imaginary Menaces

Post by Deacon » Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:17 pm

Which private institutions are you referring to? Pierce is a government institution.
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Re: Political Correctness and Other Imaginary Menaces

Post by The Cid » Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:48 pm

Then it seems pretty cut-and-dried that they're violating their duties as a public institution. Either way, it'd be a problem if they had gotten away with it, rather than being reported on and made correctly into a laughingstock. That's the proper reaction and the one they received.
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Re: Political Correctness and Other Imaginary Menaces

Post by The Cid » Wed Apr 05, 2017 11:30 am

So while we're back here yet again, I have to ask those who believe political correctness is a problem, what about those many times when people cite "political correctness" to dislike something that absolutely isn't? I'm not just talking about people freaking out about women being characters in movies and video games, because that's an extreme group of morons, but they definitely use that two-word phrase to justify their hate. But we've already addressed them.

So what about people who use "political correctness" as a crutch to oppose every single thing that involves the word "diversity?" People undoubtedly do that. They do it quite a bit, actually. What do we make of people who are using this concept of political correctness to get people to hate things that don't fall under that umbrella? Are they just opportunists, or is part of the design of the idea of political correctness that you can cite it to dislike anything that doesn't exclusively involve white men?

I hope this doesn't come across as my usual sarcasm, it's just a thought I've had throughout this that I'm trying to word in a way that gets an honest answer. You believe political correctness is a problem, you're a reasonable person who doesn't take that too far. What about the racists and opportunists who do?
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Re: Political Correctness and Other Imaginary Menaces

Post by BtEO » Wed Apr 05, 2017 9:44 pm

I no-shit saw a letter in our local newspaper complaining that some recent changes to road layout in the city centre were an example of political correctness gone mad.

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Re: Political Correctness and Other Imaginary Menaces

Post by Deacon » Thu Apr 06, 2017 6:14 am

I guess what about it, Cid? People are stupid all the time everywhere and in every group. There's tremendous overlap between those pushing political correctness and self-styled social justice warriors. In fact while the SJW may be a relatively new breed, in my unconsidered opinion the PC world falls entirely under the modern SJW umbrella. So it wouldn't surprise me if stupid people get PC and broader SJW stuff confused.

PC is a problem when it prevents honest evaluations of society, cultures both micro and macro, ideas, and takes from one to give to another. If -ists of some flavor or another jump in to launch off the good points onto their own bad ones, to a certain extent it's up to the individual observer to figure that out.

If someone points out that men who are abused by women are further abused by society and have only a tiny fraction of the resources available to them that women have, what is their motivation? I couldn't say based on that alone. It's a fair and true point. If Alleomw else comes in and uses that as a platform to launch into a diatribe about how women are bad and evil and should be subjugated and we should never have given them the right to vote, etc, does that mean we should no longer allow anyone to advocate for abused men? No, of course not. But the SJW answer would be yes, because it could create a space to embolden misogyny or trigger someone to feel bad about growing up in an abusive home or because men are high privileged while women are mercilessly oppressed, so really if a few men have to take one for the team they should be grateful for the opportunity.

Should we allow a forum with an Hispanic advocate of the notion that Latin Americans have a birthright to live in the US illegally, an economics professor who favors relaxed seasonal work visas and more stringent regulation of the corporations that take advantage of illegals for profit, and a sheriff from a county near the border? The PC answer would be no, because in the words of a Yale student, "You'd be creating a space for violence to happen." After all, what if the sheriff says she's concerned that maintaining lax immigration enforcement would continue to enable the surge in human trafficking through her county? That's racist, isn't it? What if an actual racist uses that considered discussion as a launching point to declare that all latinos are bad hombres and should be subjected to extreme vetting? Is there anything you can really do about that? Does that mean you shut down the conversation lest someone co-opt it for their own purposes?

Well, some say yes, strategically you should never admit fault. You should never acknowledge the deplorable treatment of women, gays, and minorities in the Middle East, because to acknowledge it--and even worse to acknowledge that the purpetrators use their religion to justify it--could allow someone to use it to spread islamophobia. They'll openly attack Christians who are misogynists or homophobes--and rightly so. But Middle Eastern Muslims already have a hard time in the way people view them in America, so put as much lipstick on that pig (goat?) as possible because your efforts to convince people Islam is good in the name of political correctness could be undermined by an honest evaluation of how the religion and the cultures associated with its modern strongholds cause so much suffering. And now that's racist, because few of the perpetrators of suffering have blue eyes, and by new PC definitions it's impossible for anyone who's not white to be racist.

PC is a game, as so much is in the world of culture wars and politics. Like most things, there are positive aspects to it, and it stated out with good intentions. But then people who read too much Alinsky and Machiavelli give up sincerity in exchange for what they believe to be a greater degree of efficacy to hasten the downfall of any form of thought that differs from their own. It's where identity politics came from. As SJWs grew out of the PC movement, they took it farther, pushed it harder, and disallowed the separation of ideas from identity. If you disagree with one or more of Obama's political positions, you are necessarily a racist. Full stop. It creates shame and then forms it into a cudgel to silence anyone who has any problem with it. In some circles its tyranny is absolute. Thankfully while its excesses can present a constant series of challenges for some, it's so far been mostly cultural, baked into bylaws but not yet been formed into law itself.
The follies which a man regrets the most in his life are those which he didn't commit when he had the opportunity. - Helen Rowland, A Guide to Men, 1922

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Re: Political Correctness and Other Imaginary Menaces

Post by The Cid » Thu Apr 06, 2017 12:44 pm

Deacon wrote:
Thu Apr 06, 2017 6:14 am
I guess what about it, Cid? People are stupid all the time everywhere and in every group.
I like that people taking something you don't like too far is Machiavellian, but people trying to take advantage of a mentality you believe in are just stupid people. Because what I asked you was the same question you're posing to the PC crowd. What about people taking good intentions too far? That's all this was ever about, and it works both ways because people very recently used this anti-PC mentality to gain high office, and those people? They're uh, I'd call them things but we can't use those words since we must silence the politically correct.
Deacon wrote:
Thu Apr 06, 2017 6:14 am
SJW
You mean a person who's sick of overt racism who has apparently been branded the most delicate flower in the garden? Nice dismissive term. Halfway to calling them snowflakes.

I'm sorry, but I just think you dismiss the idea that people would be using the counterpoint to manipulate people as well. This is odd to me because you see so much manipulation and malice in things with which you disagree. So let me give you my hypothetical. Like yours it's based in real events.

What if someone ran for office under "we're too PC?" What if this manipulative PC culture hasn't prevented, evidently, a single overt racist in this country because as it turns out there are A WHOLE HELL OF A LOT OF THEM. What if a platform of outright xenophobia, Hell, let's take it and call it what it is, what if a white nationalist were elected president and put a manipulative, media-affiliated white nationalist thought leader in as his chief of staff? What if someone took advantage of people being tired of a minor nuisance and became a major problem? Because I have news for you: That happened last November and we're living with it right the Hell now.

But that manipulative PC crowd who would undo society and are out to get us all, they're the problem. Not the people who rose to power blaming them for so many of the world's ills, nah, that's just us seeing racism where there isn't any. Or, more accurately, where there's an ever-loving ton of it all over this country and apparently nobody, and I mean not one person, was listening to this insipid PC culture all along.

But let's keep pretending it's a problem. The concept of social justice, of course, not the radicalized white nationalism that has used this imagined menace to take control of the most powerful office in the country. Because we can't call things racist. That might trigger the fragile bastards into needing a safe space.
Deacon wrote:
Thu Apr 06, 2017 6:14 am
If you disagree with one or more of Obama's political positions, you are necessarily a racist.
Unless you're saying this is a Boy Who Cried Wolf scenario, I'd suggest there is someone who is pretty damn undeniably a racist running this damn country. And if the PC culture you're so worried about were that manipulative, that insipid, that able to silence their opposition, how is it that happened? Or am I just overreacting to the fact that radicalized white nationalism is at its highest point in America in a century and a half.

Now if you'll excuse me I have to write a column about The Masters, because despite the prevalence of PC culture The Masters continues to exist, which you'd think wouldn't be the case.
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