Geocentrism

Perspectives on our world and our universe, how it works, what is happening, and why it happens. Whether by a hidden hand or natural laws, we come together to hash it out, and perhaps provide a little bit of education and enlightenment for others. This is a place for civil discussion. Please keep it that way.
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Dreamer
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Geocentrism

Post by Dreamer » Wed Jun 03, 2015 3:46 pm

So, I'm going to go out on a limb here and assuem we dont' actually haev any tru geocentrists on this forum.

For what it's worth, I'm an Atheist myself. No big surprise there. Actualyl if I wanted to be more specific (which I apaprently do) I'd classify myself as a "secualr humanist" or an "Evolutionary humanist." Anyway, whatever.

Here's ther fun part. My parents used to be fairly open minded. AS far as catholics in the 80's go, anwyay. But lately they've gotten into this new... church. Calvary. Heard of it? Anyway, moving on.

Now theyr'e very sola scriptura. It's almost impossible to tolerate them. They're almost perpetually "witnessing." They believe that the earth is 6000 years old. And here's the best part... They're geocentrists now, too. Do you know what that means?! Of course you all do. You're all very eurodite.

I try my best... But you cant' convince these people.

Then I came up with an idea.

Unlimited funds.

You find two scientists. One will send a probe to mars using curent heliocentric theories. The other, geocentric. And se which actualyl lands and sends back data.

Then I realized... Is there such a thing as a geocentric scientits? I'm failry certain there is not... What else do we have to go on?
EDIT: I didnt' edit. I dont' care abotu my typos. You know what I was saying.
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Re: Geocentrism

Post by JermCool » Wed Jun 03, 2015 3:57 pm

Recommendation: Let it slide. They're your parents, so just love them for who they are and don't waste the effort in trying to prove them wrong.

I could argue with a young-earth creationist all day and would get nowhere fast. I could argue with a Darwinist and get nowhere fast. So why worry about it? People believe what they're going to believe.
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Re: Geocentrism

Post by Dreamer » Wed Jun 03, 2015 4:46 pm

Nah. I'm 38. I'm not about to argue with my parents. They're old. And growing increasingly racist.

But it did make me wonder if there was such a thing as a secular argument in favor of geocentrism.
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Re: Geocentrism

Post by Cyberliger777 » Wed Jun 03, 2015 4:51 pm

What kind of Calvary is it? My group of Church's are called Calvary Chapel, but we are not crackpots to believe in that crap.
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Re: Geocentrism

Post by Rorschach » Wed Jun 03, 2015 5:08 pm

I started thinking about this and gave up as it was hurting my brains. I can see why your parents seek divine intervention on this.
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Re: Geocentrism

Post by JermCool » Wed Jun 03, 2015 5:54 pm

Dreamer wrote:But it did make me wonder if there was such a thing as a secular argument in favor of geocentrism.
Sign me the heck up!

It is fun to imagine the entire solar system swinging around the earth like a screwed up hoola-hoop.
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Re: Geocentrism

Post by NorthernComfort » Wed Jun 03, 2015 10:20 pm

I had to google geocentrism just to make sure I wasn't taking crazy pills. And yup. Somebody is taking crazy pills, and it ain't me.
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Re: Geocentrism

Post by Deacon » Thu Jun 04, 2015 1:47 am

It's extremely difficult to believe this is anything more than a wind-up...
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Re: Geocentrism

Post by Dreamer » Wed Jun 24, 2015 8:33 pm

It's defintiely Calvary Chapel. The one founded by that Chuck Smith guy.
Now, look. I'm not saying all the people who attend that chapel are euqally as loony-toons as my folks are.
I just think they like the people there and stuff. They found a community of people they like. Works for me.
They've taken it upon themselves to get crazy. They just kind of believe that every word of the bible is 100% true. no exceptions.

I avoid discussions about this with them. I knew they were young earther's first. Then my dad dropped a little hint 6 months or so ago, and confirmed by fear that they are, also, goecentrists.

Now I just find it fascinating. I'm not sure how much geocentrism would have interested me before. But now, I find myself looking it up a few times a week. geocentric models are particualrly interesting. Like, for example... We can observe mars. No question. We can watch it in the sky. And with a heliocentric model, mars just goes aroudn the sun in a semi-elliptical orbit. But apply a geocenric theory? Now mars has to do this weird pattern. Like, it maks six or seven figure 8s as it "goes aroudn Earth." And that's what a geocentrist will tell you. That's what it does. End of story.

It's very weird...
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Re: Geocentrism

Post by JermCool » Thu Jun 25, 2015 3:23 pm

You made me look it up as well. Heliocentric orbits make for easy math, but thanks to relativity, geocentric orbits are possible!

Occam's Razor refuses to allow me to accept that, though. And trying to envision geocentrism on a galactic scale is even more mathematically improbabler. Trying to imagine how Alpha Centauri orbits around the earth makes my head hurt.
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Re: Geocentrism

Post by Dreamer » Tue Jun 30, 2015 2:11 pm

Yeah, I guess that's kind of the deal...
All we require for an orbit, at least as far as my limited understanding goes..., is a "center of gravity." And, I think geo-centrists will argue that this center of gravity can be placed anywhere. Rather than it being the object with the most mass, which would be the sun, my cant' the center of gravity be at the center of the earth? If it has nothing actually to do with mass. That's my understanding of the theory, anyway.
I don't buy it, of course. Because, back to my earlier idea... We've landed several objects on Mars. Russians put something on Venus. We have Cassini around Jupiter right now. And Voyager left our solar system while taking several cool pictures along the way. Did the scientists use a geocentric or a heliocentric model to calculate those... flight paths... or whatever you'd call them? I'm guessing heliocentric. So in order to believe that the Earth is the center of the galaxy you have two believe one of two things:
1) The scientists used a geocentric model but there's a conspiracy to make everyone believe they actually used a Heliocentric model. And it's a massive cover-up, involving thousands of people and not a single word of it has yet been leaked somehow; or
2) None of it ever happened. No rovers, no satellites, none of it. Which would also require the same degree of cover-up.
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Re: Geocentrism

Post by NorthernComfort » Tue Jun 30, 2015 2:15 pm

It really seems like it would be simpler for them to deny everything, including the concept of orbits needing a center of gravity. Just make it all work because God said so and BOOM! SCIENCE!
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Re: Geocentrism

Post by Dreamer » Tue Jun 30, 2015 5:11 pm

So, I don't knwo if that statement is on purpose... But that's the argument for antoehr major belief of my father's. Did I also mention he's a young earther?
That's right. He also believes the earth is 6000 years old.

Does he believe in carbon dating? No, of course not. And there are anomolous creatures (like... Some sort of clam or something...) that can't be carbon dated. And that's proof enough for him.

But the thing that realyl gets me is relativity... That the speed of light is a contant. And if the earth is only 6000 years old why can we even observe objects that are further than 6000 light years away?

Go ahead and look that up. You can see the difference between 6000 observable light years and what our actual observable universe is.

So, why can we observe those things? Well, because God made it that way. Done. He made all of those things observable 6000 years ago, and then let it expand from there.

Again, I don't argue with my father. I avoid those topics at all costs.

That level of... whatever you want to call it... can't be argued with.
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Re: Geocentrism

Post by Deacon » Tue Jun 30, 2015 6:25 pm

Yes, that's literally the argument used on me as well. God is a wizard who can do anything, so to confuse us and test our faith, he created the universe as if it were 14 billion years old. Same reason the devil out fossils in the ground, to mislead us and test our faith.

No joke.
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Re: Geocentrism

Post by Rorschach » Wed Jul 01, 2015 9:28 am

I don't argue with my father
Truth up. There's no win in it. My father, at a late age, has started kissing up to God to the point where he goes on pilgrimages to Lourdes and Medjugorje and the likes. The last trip he had, he swore blind that the home-made Rosary beads my elderly Auntie Anna took with her changed colour from white to blood red in her handbag.

Crazy or believing, look into those eyes. You're not changing anything there.
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