Hastert & GOP Homosexuality

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NorthernComfort
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Hastert & GOP Homosexuality

Post by NorthernComfort » Sun May 31, 2015 3:16 pm

What is it with anti-gay members of the GOP and their closeted homosexuality? At this point it's pretty much a cliche. It's like the strongest prediction of homosexual activity is just being a GOP politician who supports anti-gay legislation and claims the coded rhetorical mantle of "family values". [1]

So Hastert, the Speaker of the House from 1999 to 2007, was caught lying to the feds about some mysteriously large bank withdrawals, which in turn was exposed to be blackmail payoffs to the tune of $3.5m. The details are foggy, but it appears the blackmailer was a high school student at the time that Hastert was a high school wrestling coach. All signs point to molestation of a male minor at the time.

Yet Hastert, along with so many other of his ilk, went along with the GOP talking points of gayness being immoral. And let's not forget how he chose to ignore the emails about Mark Foley from 2005 in which Foley was hitting on a 16-year old male page.

When will the GOP abandon their anti-gay, family-values, religiously-fueled rhetoric out of the sheer hypocrisy of it?

I would make a list of the gay GOP politicians who actively opposed same-sex marriage and publicly stated that homosexuality is immoral, but I'm pretty sure I'd exceed the maximum size of a forum post, and I'd be busy for a few weeks.

Summary: When it comes to sexuality, the GOP needs to do some serious soul-searching. It's really fucking sad. But whenever somebody spews that anti-gay rhetoric, my mind pretty much assumes they are in the closet and highly self-loathing.... really fucking sad.

fin.

[1] OK, the best prediction is being covered in body paint while gyrating on a float at a gay pride parade, but it's really close.
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Re: Hastert & GOP Homosexuality

Post by NorthernComfort » Sun May 31, 2015 3:48 pm

Also, fun thought exercise. Which of the current GOP Presidential aspirants are gay? The old Kinsey number states that 10% of the population is gay, but only 1-2% actually identify as gay. I trust the porn industry more, which suggests about 5% of men in every state searches for the gay stuff. So let's say between 5-10%. With something like 14 likely GOP candidates, we have a pretty good statistical chance that one of them is gay.

My pick? Santorum, obviously. The guy can't go 15 minutes without thinking about dudes going at it.
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Re: Hastert & GOP Homosexuality

Post by Deacon » Mon Jun 01, 2015 12:17 am

I don't know, but I agree completely. Luckily as with marijuana legalization, momentum is squarely on the side of liberty: let people smoke poles or marijuana and get the hell over it.
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Re: Hastert & GOP Homosexuality

Post by JermCool » Mon Jun 01, 2015 4:10 pm

I just want to clarify one thing. I am a Republican, and I believe that marriage should be reserved for a single man and single woman. That said:

I really wish the party and the government would just leave it alone. I think it was Oklahoma who said "You know what? We're not performing weddings for anyone." I just about jumped out of my seat and high-5ed the Governor. For tax purposes, common-law unions are just fine. If you're gay and want to say you're married, fine! I won't argue the point, nor would the majority of the party. These loons in DC aren't in touch anymore.

On the flip side, if you're having a gay wedding, don't go to a Christian-owned bakery to make the cake. Saying "No" was the NICE thing for them to do. If it were me, I would iced it with 1 Corinthians 7:2. Then donated the profits to the Christian Coalition. When the courts start forcing people to act against their religious beliefs, that's when you end up with this "anti-LGBT" legislation.
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Re: Hastert & GOP Homosexuality

Post by Deacon » Mon Jun 01, 2015 8:14 pm

JermCool wrote:I just want to clarify one thing. I am a Republican, and I believe that marriage should be reserved for a single man and single woman.
Why, out of curiosity? "One man one woman" has no basis in religion--and even if it did, the rules of one religion or another have no basis being codified and enforced as law in the United States. And if it's about insisting that god hates fags, that's mostly based from Paul's ranting letters, not the word of god. Even if god does hate fags, and they'll all burn in hell for being born evil and wrong, if they're not hurting you why push those religious concepts on them? The rest is purely a passing cultural norm. Even if you believe that's what works best for you, why force others to be restricted by whatever that happens to be, when they're doing you no harm?
The follies which a man regrets the most in his life are those which he didn't commit when he had the opportunity. - Helen Rowland, A Guide to Men, 1922

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Re: Hastert & GOP Homosexuality

Post by NorthernComfort » Mon Jun 01, 2015 9:50 pm

I agree with Deacon. I also find it really bizarre that you are okay with gay couples SAYING they are married but you are not okay with them GETTING married. Huh? You prefer for them to lie...???
On the flip side, if you're having a gay wedding, don't go to a Christian-owned bakery to make the cake. Saying "No" was the NICE thing for them to do.
No, that is incorrect. The NICE thing to do was baking them their goddamn cake. Why?

Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do
to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

Or if you can't handle a "ye" in your Bible:

Therefore whatever you desire for men to do to you, you
shall also do to them; for this is the law and the prophets.

Or a tl;dr

Don't be a dick, we all want cake.
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Re: Hastert & GOP Homosexuality

Post by NorthernComfort » Mon Jun 01, 2015 9:58 pm

Also, I'm updating my Gay GOP Presidential Candidates to include both Santorum and Lindsay Graham.
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Re: Hastert & GOP Homosexuality

Post by JermCool » Mon Jun 01, 2015 11:34 pm

NorthernComfort wrote:I agree with Deacon. I also find it really bizarre that you are okay with gay couples SAYING they are married but you are not okay with them GETTING married. Huh? You prefer for them to lie...???
I'm not out to judge. In my mind, though - yes, they would be living a lie.
No, that is incorrect. The NICE thing to do was baking them their goddamn cake. Why?

Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do
to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

Or if you can't handle a "ye" in your Bible:

Therefore whatever you desire for men to do to you, you
shall also do to them; for this is the law and the prophets.

Or a tl;dr

Don't be a dick, we all want cake.
That's up to the business owner. But if you're going to sit there and force them to violate their religious principles because of "perceived" Constitutional rights (there's no marriage clause or amendment in the whole thing) are more important than the ones that are clearly laid out in the First Amendment, then who is the bigger dick?
Deacon wrote:Why, out of curiosity? "One man one woman" has no basis in religion--and even if it did, the rules of one religion or another have no basis being codified and enforced as law in the United States. And if it's about insisting that god hates fags, that's mostly based from Paul's ranting letters, not the word of god. Even if god does hate fags, and they'll all burn in hell for being born evil and wrong, if they're not hurting you why push those religious concepts on them? The rest is purely a passing cultural norm. Even if you believe that's what works best for you, why force others to be restricted by whatever that happens to be, when they're doing you no harm?
Paul's letters are a lot less extreme than Moses and Leviticus. Nevertheless, I'm not gonna go all Westboro. That ain't my scene. I can't run around shouting "SINNER SINNER SINNER" at all and sundry because I'd have to do that to the mirror first until it weren't true. And I'm not looking to push my faith on anyone who doesn't want it.

What I'm saying is "Don't push your immorality on my faith". Aside from the Westboro crew (and I think we ALL agree they can go to hell), I can't think of a single Christian who CARES what two people get up to in the bedroom. Just don't force us to agree with it.
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Re: Hastert & GOP Homosexuality

Post by Deacon » Tue Jun 02, 2015 6:24 am

JermCool wrote:That's up to the business owner. But if you're going to sit there and force them to violate their religious principles because of "perceived" Constitutional rights (there's no marriage clause or amendment in the whole thing) are more important than the ones that are clearly laid out in the First Amendment, then who is the bigger dick?
First of all, careful with the Constitutional argument. There's no phone clause or amendment, either, but the 4th applies. The 14th also applies here. The Constitution is mostly conceptual, which is the whole point.

Also, this is where you get into the gray zone between freedom and conflicting rights. If I have the "right" to exercise my religion, does that cover ways that harm nonconsenting parties? For example, if my religion commands me to capture a person and sacrifice them, do I get to claim that's my First Amendment right? Not really, no. Can you consider discrimination to be harm? Precedent puts down a resounding yes. So legally, there's not much of a leg to stand on in the argument that a baker violates his religious rights by baking cakes.
What I'm saying is "Don't push your immorality on my faith". Aside from the Westboro crew (and I think we ALL agree they can go to hell), I can't think of a single Christian who CARES what two people get up to in the bedroom. Just don't force us to agree with it.
I don't know if there's something there to agree or disagree about. It just is. But how does the state allowing two consenting adults of any gender marrying force you to "agree" with it or have anything to do with anyone's religion?

EDIT:
JermCool wrote:Paul's letters are a lot less extreme than Moses and Leviticus. Nevertheless, I'm not gonna go all Westboro.
I disagree. Other than the Sodom and Gomorrah myth, there's not much in the entire Old Testament there. And there's nothing I can think of in the New Testament, definitely nothing from Jesus, and nothing actually from the Apostles, either, other than the self-proclaimed apostle with a lot of his own issues and prejudices dealing with Greeks and Romans he held in contempt regardless...nearly 2000 years ago.
The follies which a man regrets the most in his life are those which he didn't commit when he had the opportunity. - Helen Rowland, A Guide to Men, 1922

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Re: Hastert & GOP Homosexuality

Post by NorthernComfort » Tue Jun 02, 2015 1:20 pm

That's up to the business owner. But if you're going to sit there and force them to violate their religious principles because of "perceived" Constitutional rights (there's no marriage clause or amendment in the whole thing) are more important than the ones that are clearly laid out in the First Amendment, then who is the bigger dick?
If you can explain why baking a cake for a perceived sinner violates religious principles, I’ll eat my hat.

And I never mentioned the Constitution. Nobody has a Constitutional right to a cake. And there is no law forcing them to make said cake. I'm just saying it's what a decent, NICE person would do. Instead of JERKS who apparently never got past the Old Testament.

You want to live in modern society and bake cakes for a living? Better get used to baking them for people who do all sorts of crazy shit in the bedroom. Maybe even shellfish eaters! Or secretive Satanists! What if a Jew walked in and wanted a cake? How about a Muslim? Hindu? Oh, is that different? What a load of baloney.

In short, it's not cool to hide your dislike of gay people under the guise of Christianity. The religious liberty argument is completely transparent to everybody. You're not fooling anybody. Most people know the Bible encourages us not to judge others, and to treat others with kindness. If hating on gays trumps the basics of morality in your eyes, you're a douchebag.

And if you think you're a good Christian when you're amused by joking about bullying people with their own wedding cakes... news flash, you're just an asshole. It's not cute or funny. It's definitely not Christian behavior. It's juvenile and pathetic. Grow up!
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Re: Hastert & GOP Homosexuality

Post by BtEO » Tue Jun 02, 2015 4:59 pm

JermCool wrote:That's up to the business owner. But if you're going to sit there and force them to violate their religious principles because of "perceived" Constitutional rights (there's no marriage clause or amendment in the whole thing) are more important than the ones that are clearly laid out in the First Amendment, then who is the bigger dick?
Just a quick reminder that people used their religious principles to campaign against interracial marriage too.

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Re: Hastert & GOP Homosexuality

Post by JermCool » Tue Jun 02, 2015 7:16 pm

See? This is why I keep my religious beliefs mostly to myself! Sheesh.

Deacon, Leviticus 20:13 "And if a man lie with mankind, as with womankind, both of them have committed abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them." That's kinda...rough. Thank God for the New Testament, amirite?

BtEO, people also used it to justify polygamy and murder. I can't make those morons right. I can just go with what the Bible says as it is written.

Look, I'm staring down the barrel of 40 and I'm not going to have my mind changed and I don't think an argument ever changed a belief, so if anyone is trying to do that, you'll be sadly disappointed.
NorthernComfort wrote:If you can explain why baking a cake for a perceived sinner violates religious principles, I’ll eat my hat.
This isn't about baking a cake. It's about being forced to participate in a ceremony that violates their religious principle. It's like forcing a Catholic school to finance birth control. It's like forcing a mosque to allow women to walk around with their head uncovered. It's like forcing an Indian caterer to serve t-bone steak. Those rules might seem silly and archaic to some, but they are deeply held religious beliefs!
And I never mentioned the Constitution. Nobody has a Constitutional right to a cake. And there is no law forcing them to make said cake.
According to the Colorado judicial system, there is. Hence the problem I have with it.
I'm just saying it's what a decent, NICE person would do. Instead of JERKS who apparently never got past the Old Testament.

You want to live in modern society and bake cakes for a living? Better get used to baking them for people who do all sorts of crazy shit in the bedroom. Maybe even shellfish eaters! Or secretive Satanists! What if a Jew walked in and wanted a cake? How about a Muslim? Hindu? Oh, is that different? What a load of baloney.
This isn't about a birthday cake. Or a graduation cake. Or a Bat Mitzvah cake. This is about a WEDDING cake that they were expected to bake, decorate, and deliver to a gay WEDDING. This was always a specific instance and to say otherwise is disingenuous.
In short, it's not cool to hide your dislike of gay people under the guise of Christianity. The religious liberty argument is completely transparent to everybody. You're not fooling anybody. Most people know the Bible encourages us not to judge others, and to treat others with kindness. If hating on gays trumps the basics of morality in your eyes, you're a douchebag.

And if you think you're a good Christian when you're amused by joking about bullying people with their own wedding cakes... news flash, you're just an asshole. It's not cute or funny. It's definitely not Christian behavior. It's juvenile and pathetic. Grow up!
I challenge you to find one gay person I've ever been a douchebag to. Ask anyone here if I've been anything other than a lovable doofus on this forum. I have no dislike for gay people. I don't skirt around them when they talk to me as if they had the cooties. I'm not some idiot Westboro bigot. The joke about the Bible verses was just a joke to emphasize what a true slight (and justifiably sue-able offense) would be compared to saying "no".

Look, I'm in no position to judge whether or not someone is a sinner because the words "good Christian" are an oxymoron. But don't force me to participate in something that, in my opinion, is a sinful act. I got enough of those to deal with.
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Re: Hastert & GOP Homosexuality

Post by NorthernComfort » Tue Jun 02, 2015 9:25 pm

If it were me, I would iced it with 1 Corinthians 7:2. Then donated the profits to the Christian Coalition.
I challenge you to find one gay person I've ever been a douchebag to.
Ok, so you just enjoy fantasizing about being a douchebag to gay people. (Which is totally normal, and totally unrelated to the original topic of this thread.)
But don't force me to participate in something that, in my opinion, is a sinful act.
Hey, it could all be consensual, JermCool. Come on over and take my hand. We don't have to get gay married or bake any gay cakes. We can just do some manly stuff together. Maybe go to the gym and get our blood flowing, our muscles pumping, know what I mean? You're so tense. How about a massage?
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Re: Hastert & GOP Homosexuality

Post by JermCool » Wed Jun 03, 2015 12:40 am

NorthernComfort wrote:Ok, so you just enjoy fantasizing about being a douchebag to gay people. (Which is totally normal, and totally unrelated to the original topic of this thread.)
Fixed that for you.
Hey, it could all be consensual, JermCool. Come on over and take my hand. We don't have to get gay married or bake any gay cakes. We can just do some manly stuff together. Maybe go to the gym and get our blood flowing, our muscles pumping, know what I mean? You're so tense. How about a massage?
Only for Rors. Otherwise, I will keep my "body by IT".
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Re: Hastert & GOP Homosexuality

Post by Rorschach » Wed Jun 03, 2015 8:34 am

Don't bring me into it. My heart is past broken that you've only been kidding all along.

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