The second amendment

Perspectives on our world and our universe, how it works, what is happening, and why it happens. Whether by a hidden hand or natural laws, we come together to hash it out, and perhaps provide a little bit of education and enlightenment for others. This is a place for civil discussion. Please keep it that way.
Forum rules
1) Remain civil. Respect others' rights to their viewpoints, even if you believe them to be completely wrong.
2) Sourcing your information is highly recommended. Plagiarism will get you banned.
3) Please create a new thread for a new topic, even if you think it might not get a lot of responses. Do not create mega-threads.
4) If you think the subject of a thread is not important enough to merit a post, simply avoid posting in it. If enough people agree, it will fall off the page soon enough.
Post Reply
User avatar
NorthernComfort
Crazy Person
Posts: 2748
Joined: Fri May 23, 2003 8:13 pm
Real Name: Alex
Gender: Male
Location: Brooklyn, NY

Re: The second amendment

Post by NorthernComfort » Tue Oct 03, 2017 3:03 pm

Oh, look, another worst-mass-shooting-in-US-history.

I'm sure if only those concert-goers were sufficiently armed, they would have quickly turned around and shot that bastard out of the 32nd story window at 500+ yards. After all the only thing that stops a bad guy with 23 guns is a... hmm.

AR-15s, 70-round drums, gatling gun cranks, bipods... none of them belong in civilian hands in a decent society.
"I guess I have a gift for expressing pedestrian tastes. In a way, it's kind of depressing." -Bill Watterson

User avatar
raptor9k
Crazy Person
Posts: 1260
Joined: Tue May 15, 2007 8:33 pm
Gender: Male
Location: Arkansas
Contact:

Re: The second amendment

Post by raptor9k » Tue Oct 03, 2017 3:56 pm

I get where you're coming from, we have to do something.

In the age of home 3d printed/machined firearms and magazines I'm sure whatever legislation you imagine would've prevented this is about as effective a prevention of this type of thing as all of the existing legislation was. Anyone with an ounce of creativity will just start using something else that's as or more effective at turning people into corpses. Would the death toll have been any lower had he bought/rented/stolen a semi and simply driven through the crowd?

We have a crazy problem. We've created a society that's so fucked up that people want to kill large numbers of other people. I'm not sure how we fix that and I don't think anyone is even talking about it right now.
I'm putting my talents and skills to use for a business so that I receive compensatory funds that I may then choose to spend and invest and save as I see fit. If I choose to blow it all on hookers and Dr. Seuss books, I don't see how that means you owe me a comfortable retirement. - Deacon

User avatar
NorthernComfort
Crazy Person
Posts: 2748
Joined: Fri May 23, 2003 8:13 pm
Real Name: Alex
Gender: Male
Location: Brooklyn, NY

Re: The second amendment

Post by NorthernComfort » Tue Oct 03, 2017 4:06 pm

Yeah, this society is sick beyond belief. What drives somebody to do this? I have no idea.
Would the death toll have been any lower had he bought/rented/stolen a semi and simply driven through the crowd?
Yes, because there are walls around the concert grounds. In other words, the government sees an out-of-control car as a lethal weapon and took some precautionary measures (building barriers) to prevent it from happening.
"I guess I have a gift for expressing pedestrian tastes. In a way, it's kind of depressing." -Bill Watterson

User avatar
raptor9k
Crazy Person
Posts: 1260
Joined: Tue May 15, 2007 8:33 pm
Gender: Male
Location: Arkansas
Contact:

Re: The second amendment

Post by raptor9k » Tue Oct 03, 2017 4:25 pm

I've seen a fence but no walls. Nothing that would stop a semi. Their barriers were pretty good at stopping fleeing victims from effectively leaving the area. Even had their been a ring of k-rails around the venue to prevent vehicle intrusion, there are a myriad of other ways to create the same end result.
I'm putting my talents and skills to use for a business so that I receive compensatory funds that I may then choose to spend and invest and save as I see fit. If I choose to blow it all on hookers and Dr. Seuss books, I don't see how that means you owe me a comfortable retirement. - Deacon

User avatar
NorthernComfort
Crazy Person
Posts: 2748
Joined: Fri May 23, 2003 8:13 pm
Real Name: Alex
Gender: Male
Location: Brooklyn, NY

Re: The second amendment

Post by NorthernComfort » Tue Oct 03, 2017 4:39 pm

There's a wall on the side facing Las Vegas Blvd. I don't know if a semi could get through and honestly I don't really want to think about it.

The comparison that keeps popping into mind is the 2nd battle of Fallujah, which was some of the fiercest fighting in the Iraq War. Over the first week, we lost 54 Americans, with 425 wounded. One week of actual urban warfare can have similar loss of life as a few minutes of an asshole with some ARs, 70-round drums, a gatling crank, and a tripod.

What can we possible do to protect ourselves and others?

1. Never attend a large-scale event which might be a tempting target to a mass murderer.
2. Move to states where mass shootings are rare (Hawaii tops my list there due to remoteness, self-selecting culture, and regulation)
3. Pass legislation which would ban high-capacity drums and gatling cranks.
4. Fix our culture
5. Move to Mars.

I'm doing #1, investigating #2, and hahahahaha yeah right on #3.

I'd put money on #5 being possible before #4.
"I guess I have a gift for expressing pedestrian tastes. In a way, it's kind of depressing." -Bill Watterson

User avatar
raptor9k
Crazy Person
Posts: 1260
Joined: Tue May 15, 2007 8:33 pm
Gender: Male
Location: Arkansas
Contact:

Re: The second amendment

Post by raptor9k » Tue Oct 03, 2017 5:07 pm

The other side on Giles is just a fence from what I can tell via street view and photos from the scene.

I don't like crowds or being disarmed so #1 is pretty much a given. For #2 I doubt Arkansas is all that high on the list of mass shootings in public. I can think of 2 off the top of my head. Jonesboro in the late 90s and the most likely gang related nightclub shooting from earlier this year.

Even if you succeeded on #3 it wouldn't work. You'd have to fully ban all guns AND go door to door confiscating all weapons, so pretty much impossible.
If you just ban high cap mags and gatling cranks, John A Crazy fires up his 3d printer and prints a few 30-50 round double stack mags. He then constructs a gatling crank out of some scrap metal with basic power tools. A bump fire stock is literally just a sleeve that goes around the buffer tube of an AR-15 that gives you a ledge to brace your finger on and allows the recoil of the weapon to move it forward and backward less than an inch of travel, thereby slamming the trigger into your finger on each return stroke. Bump firing without the stock has been a thing for probably 20+ years.

#4, yeah we're hosed. Even if we weren't this doesn't seem to be on the radar currently.

#5, COME ON MUSK!
I'm putting my talents and skills to use for a business so that I receive compensatory funds that I may then choose to spend and invest and save as I see fit. If I choose to blow it all on hookers and Dr. Seuss books, I don't see how that means you owe me a comfortable retirement. - Deacon

User avatar
NorthernComfort
Crazy Person
Posts: 2748
Joined: Fri May 23, 2003 8:13 pm
Real Name: Alex
Gender: Male
Location: Brooklyn, NY

Re: The second amendment

Post by NorthernComfort » Tue Oct 03, 2017 5:13 pm

Yeah, I understand how easy it is to print or just manufacture the parts you need. But let's say you have a population of 100 people that want to commit mass murder. Some of them will have the access or technical capability to 3d print or otherwise manufacture the parts. Some won't, they won't know how, won't have the money, won't have the parts. Maybe now you have less than 100 people. So I still think it's worth the ban.

I don't want any door-to-door insanity. That's just asking for endless bloodshed. Announce a date where they are illegal, set up drop-off points for citizens to drop off their 70-round drums in exchange for some base compensation. Not everybody will do that, but some will. And then make them illegal to possess, so that when somebody is caught with one, they are facing prison time. Will that magically get rid of all 70-round drums? No, but it will get rid of some of them, and make them much harder to acquire.

There is no silver bullet to this, but we need to start making some baby steps. Right now our strategy is "fuck it" and that's not a society which I think anybody really wants to live in or pass on to next generation.

AND YES COME ON MUSK GET ME OFF THIS PLANET NO REALLY!
"I guess I have a gift for expressing pedestrian tastes. In a way, it's kind of depressing." -Bill Watterson

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests