Busybodies vs. Fun

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collegestudent22
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Re: Busybodies vs. Fun

Post by collegestudent22 » Sat May 12, 2012 9:48 pm

BtEO wrote:Legislation doesn't mean ban.
Of course not. It could be an extra 10% tax on combustion engines, like they do with other products government dislikes.
It could mean greater and more attractive public transport options, more charging points for electric vehicles or whatever else might end up being able to power our vehicles in 40 year's time; in the shorter term it could mean things like more bike lanes, or carpool lanes to reduce reliance where possible, or continuing the work to reduce emissions in conventionally fuelled cars.
None of this is any better in my view. Stealing money from people to pay for ways to try to force those same people to change behavior isn't any better than a ban. Government has no business deciding what is an "acceptable" means of transportation.
"The Commission denied it wanted to ban cars from city centres but said “phasing out conventional combustion engines is a realistic objective”
Like I said, I'm not all that concerned about whether it is a "ban" or a really expensive push to shift people into just not using them. That is roughly irrelevant. My issue is with the idea that government should even be determining that it would be a good idea to phase out the use of ICE engines, by whatever means they propose.
Frédéric Bastiat wrote:And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works.
Count Axel Oxenstierna wrote:Dost thou not know, my son, with how little wisdom the world is governed?

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Re: Busybodies vs. Fun

Post by BtEO » Sat May 12, 2012 10:27 pm

Well now that we've established that banning was not on the table and the headlines and core premise of each article were bull we're getting somewhere — this was my point about the media in this country (disappointingly while the rest of the article was somewhat closer to the truth even the BBC News headline used 'ban') being very good at invoking discussion on the wrong questions.

On your actual points unfortunately while we're understanding the base issues somewhat similarly, our core world-views are interpreting that data in different ways and generally speaking disagreements on this level cannot be reconciled.

The following is not an attempt to do so. Merely to see if you agree that we're unlikely to ever agree on these points.

You're of the belief that it's not the role of government to ever interfere in the choices of its citizens (or at least very rarely). I think that's an idea that can only work on the smallest scales of communities (i.e. where everyone knows each other), once you get to city and especially state or country level people will too easily make choices without thinking how it might affect people they've never met; governments have not always been the greatest at resolving this dilemma, granted, but they've still generally been better that when left to individuals.

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Re: Busybodies vs. Fun

Post by collegestudent22 » Sat May 12, 2012 11:36 pm

BtEO wrote:You're of the belief that it's not the role of government to ever interfere in the choices of its citizens
Well, most particularly, I am of the belief that there is no legitimate role of government - that it is nothing more than a gang of thieves write large. But, yes, when it interferes in the choices of individuals, then it is stepping over many, many lines it should not be, even if it were a legitimate function.
once you get to city and especially state or country level people will too easily make choices without thinking how it might affect people they've never met; governments have not always been the greatest at resolving this dilemma, granted, but they've still generally been better that when left to individuals.
There is virtually no evidence of this. The reason that negative externalities exist is precisely because government allows them to. It does not enforce property ownership (as it is supposed to do, according to the backers of government) and as a result, instead of suing someone for polluting on my property, etc., they are protected.

Of course, this is bolstered by the fact that common "examples" of this issue are actually nonsense when you analyze the data.
Frédéric Bastiat wrote:And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works.
Count Axel Oxenstierna wrote:Dost thou not know, my son, with how little wisdom the world is governed?

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Busybodies vs. Fun

Post by Deacon » Sun May 13, 2012 6:28 am

collegestudent22 wrote:a gang of thieves write large.
Did you mean "writ"?
The follies which a man regrets the most in his life are those which he didn't commit when he had the opportunity. - Helen Rowland, A Guide to Men, 1922

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Re: Busybodies vs. Fun

Post by collegestudent22 » Sun May 13, 2012 10:34 am

Yes, yes I did.
Frédéric Bastiat wrote:And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works.
Count Axel Oxenstierna wrote:Dost thou not know, my son, with how little wisdom the world is governed?

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Re: Busybodies vs. Fun

Post by collegestudent22 » Sat May 19, 2012 7:34 am

20% "fat tax"? You have got to be kidding me. :(
Frédéric Bastiat wrote:And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works.
Count Axel Oxenstierna wrote:Dost thou not know, my son, with how little wisdom the world is governed?

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Re: Busybodies vs. Fun

Post by ampersand » Sat May 19, 2012 7:48 pm

collegestudent22 wrote:20% "fat tax"? You have got to be kidding me. :(
So that's why you couldn't make it in the military...

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collegestudent22
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Re: Busybodies vs. Fun

Post by collegestudent22 » Sat May 19, 2012 11:28 pm

No, my problem is that - despite eating those foods that supposedly make you fat - I still weigh only 135 pounds as a six foot male. That's right - not even 10 stone.

Also, I have a job at Seagate now, and I much prefer the $60k salary over the $33k the military pays new grads. :D
Frédéric Bastiat wrote:And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works.
Count Axel Oxenstierna wrote:Dost thou not know, my son, with how little wisdom the world is governed?

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Busybodies vs. Fun

Post by Deacon » Sun May 20, 2012 4:05 am

I hate everything about that idea.
The follies which a man regrets the most in his life are those which he didn't commit when he had the opportunity. - Helen Rowland, A Guide to Men, 1922

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Re: Busybodies vs. Fun

Post by The Cid » Fri Sep 14, 2012 2:22 pm

Image
Hirschof wrote:I'm waiting for day you people start thinking with portals.

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Deacon
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Re: Busybodies vs. Fun

Post by Deacon » Fri Sep 14, 2012 2:33 pm

Organized crime in Boston starts young? Not surprised. I had expected New Jersey until I figured out it was a Boston link.
The follies which a man regrets the most in his life are those which he didn't commit when he had the opportunity. - Helen Rowland, A Guide to Men, 1922

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collegestudent22
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Re: Busybodies vs. Fun

Post by collegestudent22 » Fri Sep 14, 2012 2:35 pm

The "black" market (aka the free market) is not organized crime. That would be the dictators running people's lives. Seriously - the only difference I can tell between the Mafia and the State is that people absurdly believe it is somehow right to submit to the thugs of the latter organization.
Frédéric Bastiat wrote:And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works.
Count Axel Oxenstierna wrote:Dost thou not know, my son, with how little wisdom the world is governed?

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Re: Busybodies vs. Fun

Post by The Cid » Fri Sep 14, 2012 2:45 pm

Deacon wrote:Organized crime in Boston starts young?
Well the first step to organized crime is prohibition. You could say the chocolate milk ban is getting them started young.
collegestudent22 wrote:Seriously - the only difference I can tell between the Mafia and the State is that people absurdly believe it is somehow right to submit to the thugs of the latter organization.
Student, I hope you watch Boss. You'd enjoy it. Or, at least, agree with it. I do recommend it.
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Hirschof wrote:I'm waiting for day you people start thinking with portals.

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Re: Busybodies vs. Fun

Post by JermCool » Fri Sep 14, 2012 6:26 pm

I need to sell Hershey's an idea I had about single-shot chocolate syrup packets for those dictatorial states/school districts. Million-dollar idea, I tell ya.
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Busybodies vs. Fun

Post by Deacon » Sat Sep 15, 2012 1:20 am

I just keep waiting to see the Quik Crew come in and start a turf war...
The follies which a man regrets the most in his life are those which he didn't commit when he had the opportunity. - Helen Rowland, A Guide to Men, 1922

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