Louis CK

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larryfilmmaker
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Louis CK

Post by larryfilmmaker » Tue Feb 16, 2010 3:28 am

Look, I generally don't like stand up. I understand that it's tons of embarrassing work and a hard craft to learn or master but it just doesn't usually entertain me. That being said... does everybody else know about this Louis CK guy? I mean... I'm reading all of these quotes of his and I could see him being quoted as much as Carlin is some day.

First I saw his appearance on Conan about people being spoiled, impatient brats when some friends emailed it to me and said "this guy sounds like you." Then, my friend just posted this quote on his Facebook:

"I love women,i need a woman, not a girl. all you 22 year old girls god bless you, do a shot or whatever the fuck you do....and there are prolly 22 yr old girls in a crowd thinking "i'm a woman" no you're not... you are not a woman until things come out of your vagina and ruin your life, if you survive that then you are a woman"


In my opinion, the greatest artists are the ones who aren't generally in step with the times. The are th eones who look around them and call it 100% how they see it. Bob Dylan comes to mind more than anybody. Carlin was cool but he was trying to sound angry - even when he might not have been. I love the greats who speak truth, or who at least really try to - even when it makes them unpopular. I can definitely see CK being known as a great someday.

Am I alone in thinking that?
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Re: Louis CK

Post by Rorschach » Tue Feb 16, 2010 8:48 am

Alone in what?
Your belief in this CK character?

I've never heard of this guy, but presenting an example of a stand-up's talents by writing it down is not the most effective way to sell him. There's a reason why these people say these words rather than print pamphlets.
If he hasn't made youtube or similar yet, then I think you'd be better not bothering.

Also, in what way was Dylan not in step with the times?
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Re: Louis CK

Post by Deacon » Wed Feb 17, 2010 3:45 am

I didn't realize there were people who didn't know who Louis CK is.

He's good but overrated. He's no Carlin. Then again, Carlin was no Carlin, either.
The follies which a man regrets the most in his life are those which he didn't commit when he had the opportunity. - Helen Rowland, A Guide to Men, 1922

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Re: Louis CK

Post by larryfilmmaker » Wed Feb 17, 2010 8:17 pm

By "not in step with the times", I almost mean to be completely aware of them without truly being a part of them... if that makes sense. Unfortunately, it might not.
I think an artist has always to be out of step with his time.
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Re: Louis CK

Post by Rorschach » Mon Feb 25, 2019 8:31 pm

This has aged badly.
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Re: Louis CK

Post by NorthernComfort » Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:26 am

What do you mean? He's a pretty funny comedian. I saw him live in 2014. Good standup.

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Re: Louis CK

Post by I like pie » Tue Feb 26, 2019 7:48 am

Eh, it's aged ok. If anything, his scandal makes his material worth another listen given the additional context. There's a lot there to understand about a flawed human being.

His indecency and disrespect for those women don't negate his skills as a comedian. We don't have to condone a person's worst behavior to appreciate their art.

His comedy will hold up fine.
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Re: Louis CK

Post by Rorschach » Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:19 pm

I like Louis CK and have listened to a lot of his stuff. But he's no comic genius reverberating down the eons. Without fresh published material, he's unlikely to stay relevant. I think his 'additional context' adds a slightly more disturbing edge to some of his more questionable material.

Don't get me wrong. I like sick jokes. But you'd best make sure you're absolutely squeaky-clean if you're going to make them. Particularly in this climate.
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Re: Louis CK

Post by I like pie » Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:28 pm

Oh yeah for sure. If anything, I think he was a bit overrated even before all this stuff went down. He's still a great comic though.

I think you are right about staying relevant, but that won't detract from his existing specials and albums. If anything, the disturbing edge, which is an appropriate way to describe it, is exactly what will give his work additional value from an artistic point of view. 10 years from now when society reflects on #metoo, his work will be the subject of analysis. This is especially true given the subject of his material.

The same goes for R. Kelly, Bill Cosby, Kevin Spacey, etc. Yes, their actions are disgusting and in some cases criminal and monstrous, but their art isn't suddenly without value.

People still enjoy Led Zeppelin despite it being fairly well known that Jimmy Page was having sex with a 14 year old fan. Even in the 70s, that was criminal behavior.

It is a very good thing that people are being held more accountable these days and that victims have a stronger voice. However, public opinion and outrage are pendulums. People care right now, and then they won't, until they do again, and so on and so on.

Meanwhile art will age just fine, as it always has.
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Re: Louis CK

Post by Rorschach » Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:50 pm

I guess there’s a certain quality of output that means people are more willing to forgive. I find it kind of hard to imagine Louis CL is so beloved or culturally relevant that people will return to him in years but he’s given me a good laugh over the years so I’m happy to be proven wrong.

God alone knows what they’ll get Doug Stanhope for.
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Re: Louis CK

Post by Deacon » Wed Feb 27, 2019 5:20 am

His standup was even secondary to his tv work and producing. His work is amazing. It may not be broad, multi-cam stuff, so he may not be as widely popular as some others, but pretty much everything he’s done or been involved in has been truly great.

All this talk about disturbing and flawed and context seems a little much. Sometimes a little perspective is helpful on the spectrum of sins. It’s not like he was chaining abdicated children in his basement to be his sex slaves until he eventually murdered them and forced the others to dismember them for discreet disposal.
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Re: Louis CK

Post by I like pie » Wed Feb 27, 2019 6:22 am

I agree about perspective, that's my point. He's no monster as some paint him, but he isn't beyond reproach as some of his hardcore fans like to believe either.

He's living out a story that wouldn't be out of place as an exaggerated joke he would concoct at his own expense, except it's not a joke and real people were effected. That makes some of his past material darker but also much more interesting.

That's the context that will give his past work additional life. He *is* flawed, and his actions *were* disturbing. Not so much because of his specific kink, but because of the abuse of the power dynamic. In a twisted but very real way, his misconduct gives his material additional authenticity over typical standup embellishment-for-laughs.

That's not to say that his behavior should be condoned. It shouldn't. However, there is something to be said for honesty in a world that is very much lacking in it.
"Women try to compete. They’re like, 'Well I’m a pervert. You don’t know. I have really sick sexual thoughts.' I’m like, 'No, you have no idea. You have NO idea.' Cause you see, you get to have those thoughts. I HAVE to have those thoughts. You're a tourist in sexual perversion. I'm a prisoner there. You're Jane Fonda on a tank. I'm John McCain in the hut."
That's still a very funny bit but damn if it isn't also heavier and sadder in retrospect, for both him and the victims of his misconduct.
Rorschach wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:50 pm
I find it kind of hard to imagine Louis CL is so beloved or culturally relevant that people will return to him in years but he’s given me a good laugh over the years so I’m happy to be proven wrong.
It's already happening. He sold out 6 shows in Florida this month.
TAMPA — Louis C.K. performed the first of six sold-out shows at Side Splitters Comedy Club on Wednesday and received a standing ovation after his hour long set.

[...]

There were no protestors [...]

[...]

If you want to make people forget that you masturbated in front of someone, “tell a joke about some kids that got shot at a school,” C.K. said, drawing big laughs. “That’s worse. ... They tend to forget the first thing.”
Think about that for a sec: these are Florida residents laughing about a joke about children from their own state getting killed being a distraction from sexual misconduct from the guy standing in front of them telling them the joke.

Wild, right?

It makes sense though. People like Asia Argento are causing the pendulum to swing away from the hypocrisy of outrage culture. The "Believe all survivors, unless they are men" attitude isn't doing progressivism any favors, and there will always be a market for people who desire honesty. Comics like Bill Burr and Dave Chappelle continue to have such devoted fans in today's climate likely *because* of it and not despite it.

A market for honesty means there are profits to be made by speaking dark truths, something Louis CK is now even further qualified for. He is still early in his return to performing, but if at some point supporting a Louis CK redemption is more profitable than risky, at least some the same entities that dropped him in the name of social justice would be looking for ways to rebuild the relationship.

We're in an outrage bubble, which is evident by the demand that exists for his bootlegged sets. 2019 is going to be interesting.
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Re: Louis CK

Post by NorthernComfort » Wed Feb 27, 2019 6:53 pm

I separate the art from the artist. It's important to do that to stay sane.

For example, I avoided Roman Polanski's movies for many years. But then guess what? I saw The Pianist, not knowing who directed it. And it was so dang good I immediately realized I was a fool, and had been cheating myself out of great movies. I went back and watched a ton. His Macbeth is sublime. So when the current debate about Problematic™ Artists™ came up I was already pretty over it. Art != Artist. Want to enjoy art? Get over it!

So what about Louis CK? I still think he's pretty funny. His standup is good. His masturbation is pretty gross, but it's also a bit funny, in the normal way that flawed, uncomfortable, human sexuality is a bit funny. We're all humans and do our own variety of dumb shit.
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Re: Louis CK

Post by Deacon » Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:04 pm

I like pie wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 6:22 am
That's the context that will give his past work additional life. He *is* flawed, and his actions *were* disturbing. Not so much because of his specific kink, but because of the abuse of the power dynamic. In a twisted but very real way, his misconduct gives his material additional authenticity over typical standup embellishment-for-laughs.
I guess that’s true, but I guess at the same time I imagine most standups aren’t making up stuff from scratch but reaching inside themselves and expressing little glimpses into the parts of us that never make it onto our social media presence—or even out loud to anyone else, ever. And I’m also affected, I think, by viewing his actions not so much as intentionally and premeditated predation so much as desperate and adolescent and wildly misguided (not at all understood to him what it appeared to others). That does not excuse or exonerate his choices, but there’s a difference between someone who seeks a position of power in order to violate others and someone who who “violates” others only *because* he ended up being in some sort of position of power, whether as menial as headliner on tour or more like executive producer.

In other words, it’s a really bad idea to whip it out and start jerking off in front of a woman who isn’t already super into it, even if they claim they don’t mind. It almost certainly won’t get her into it like you might be hoping, and it’s just going to be awkward and tainted and furthering that kind of weird sexual dynamic we sometimes have in our confused victorian culture where this kind of thing was never really talked about because sexual anything was always shameful and so we let this kind of misguided thing continue by keeping it hushed up and not educating men any better than that. But we would likely have never really heard about it if everything went down exactly the same except the women were just awkward dates or whatever else and not able to say he could have some form of career power over them that he may not have even considered. He didn’t force women to blow him to get a part, or pee on a 14 year old girl, or seduce a 16 year old dude, or all the other “worse” things that have made headlines in the last couple of years.

No, he shouldn’t have done it. Yes, he should’ve been more aware of the implications inherent in the nature of their working relationship. But I’m not ready to permanently bury him and his work over it, and I don’t think it holds the same degree of stain as, say, Cosby or Weinstein.
The follies which a man regrets the most in his life are those which he didn't commit when he had the opportunity. - Helen Rowland, A Guide to Men, 1922

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Re: Louis CK

Post by I like pie » Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:29 pm

Those are both reasonable and observant responses. It's nice to be see that once in awhile.

I wish more people were as open minded and not so emotionally reactive.
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